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Thread: Changes to EP Marketplace - Starter Bazaar

  1. #21
    Moderator Kay is a Premium Member
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    I'm confused now. The old marketplace rules specifically asked people not to link:

    2. Avoid linking. For example, post details in the thread rather than posting them elsewhere and providing a link to that location. Where you do have to provide a URL, type in the URL without the http or the www like this: experienced-people.net/forums/forum.php so it doesn't automatically become a link.
    Source: a quote from the old marketplace rules about listing sites.

    I tried to get around the problem by saying - you can link but it won't be spidered. Now it seems to be that you can have a do-follow link and it'll be spidered because there's a benefit to sellers. Clinton, did you have a change of mind from how things were before?

    I'm not bothered. I think it's more convenient if people who are interested can just click through to look. As Bryan said, I doubt if we're passing on much link juice anyway and we're strict about what we let through the pre-mod. And, as Dave said, they only get the link for as long as they're paying for it - 30 days a shot.

    I'm not really sure why this should be a contentious issue. If people want to list their sites, then let them do it - including a do-follow link if that's what's wanted.

    There has been some discussion and debate on this whole starter site issue before and, as you know, I'm not too keen on selling starter sites, not turnkeys anyway. There is a place for them in the market but the vast majority of these sites, such as those often sold elsewhere, are nothing more than newbie traps.

    For anyone wanting more info about that, please see these threads:

    http://experienced-people.net/forums...3-Hello-to-all - this is about a new member who bought a churned out clone on Flippa.

    http://experienced-people.net/forums...-turnkey-sites - this is my warning to buyers to be aware of what they're buying.
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  2. #22
    Administrator Clinton is a Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    Clinton, did you have a change of mind from how things were before?
    gzed and Bryan make good arguments; I believe I originally over-estimated the risks of link abuse.
    Find the right business brokers to maximise the value you extract from your business and improve the chances of selling your business.

  3. #23
    Moderator Kay is a Premium Member
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    Let's keep the customers satisfied. I'll get the necessary changes made today. Rewrite rules - do-follow link - forum to be spidered.

    Thanks for your interest and help, guys. Anyone who has already posted on this thread can have a free listing in the Starter Bazaar as a thanks from me. (Sites listed must comply with forum rules, eg no adult, pharma, illegal, etc.)

    Now, what about listing established websites? Presumably you'd want them to be do-follow and spidered too.
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  4. #24
    Moderator Kay is a Premium Member
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    Rule 3 on the new marketplace was a word-for-word copy of rule 2 on the old one (quoted above). I've changed it now. This is the new rule 3 for the Starter Bazaar:

    3. You may link to your website for sale. Links are do-follow on this forum. However, please post the details of the site here and don't just drop a link to a sales page or marketplace listing elsewhere.
    I'll still need to check the do-follow and spidering.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    Now, what about listing established websites? Presumably you'd want them to be do-follow and spidered too.
    Yes vote from me

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gzed View Post
    Yes vote from me
    I have no horse in this race, but would not a lot of sellers and buyers not want a listing spidered? If I was looking to flip a property I wouldn't want old listings lying around giving hints to future buyers about what I paid for the site.

    And if I were selling a somewhat known site with a strong userbase, I might not want it to be common knowledge that the site is up for sale.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to tke71709 For This Useful Post:

    Kay (8 August 2013)

  8. #27
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    The listings could be edited when a site is sold (either by the seller or forum mod), or even deleted entirely. That way the spiders will get a "nothing to see here" signal after the site is sold and the URL of the site will no longer be indexed.

  9. #28
    Moderator Kay is a Premium Member
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    Rule 7:

    Your listing will not be removed on request. If you have sold your site, you need to post in the thread that the site has sold and your listing will get greyed out or moved to a sub forum.
    gzed - the seller can't edit their own post. That option is only open for a few minutes after a member has posted something. It's mainly used for adding an afterthought or if they've spotted a typo which they wish to correct. IMO, it's a good thing to limit members' ability to edit posts after the event. I'd not agree to changing the system as it's currently set up about who can edit what.

    Allowing members to edit their own posts later can lead to all sorts of problems.
    kaymcmahon.com/1435.how-spammy-forum-posts-can-hurt-you/

    Rule 7 was originally written by Clinton for the old marketplace. I admit I don't fully understand the logic behind it. We seem to have two schools of thought here - those who want listings to be spidered and those who would prefer if they weren't. I don't have a horse in this race either. I'll go with the flow of what the members want and what Clinton advises.

    There seemed to be consensus about the Starter Bazaar so I changed that yesterday. Given that this is for low-value sites, it probably doesn't matter too much how we choose to run it. I've not changed anything on the Established Websites forum, because we need to be sure of what's wanted before making any changes.

    Long before I even became a mod here, I put forward the idea that if someone made it known that their site had been sold, then a mod should edit the thread title to add [SOLD]. This prevents people from wasting their time reading offers which are no longer open. My idea met with little enthusiasm, and it wasn't implemented. When I became a mod, I started doing it anyway. But I do it for the convenience of the user, ie so they don't have to wade through any discussions only to find at the end "this has now been sold". It never really occurred to me that people would care about SEs when listing a site for sale in this marketplace.

    There's also not much point in deleting links on a forum in an attempt to rewrite history. If anyone was doing DD prior to purchasing a site, they'd be able to dig that info up easily enough.
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  10. #29
    Administrator Clinton is a Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tke71709 View Post
    I have no horse in this race, but would not a lot of sellers and buyers not want a listing spidered? If I was looking to flip a property I wouldn't want old listings lying around giving hints to future buyers about what I paid for the site.
    In an ideal world users would be able to log into their listing after sale and block it from future public view. Copies of that listing could always exist elsewhere but at least the main listing, which has a greater chance of showing up in a Google search, would be removed.

    However, we are working within the constraints of vBulletin which is designed as a forum and does a great job of that but which doesn't lend itself well to marketplace functions. There have been numerous threads in the vbulletin forums over the years asking for a good marketplace mod for the vB platform but there still isn't one. Working with those vBulletin forum-software limitations was always a bit frustrating for me when doing anything marketplace related and many of the marketplace oddities/awkwardness I'd blame on vB.

    Rule 7 was originally written by Clinton for the old marketplace. I admit I don't fully understand the logic behind it. We seem to have two schools of thought here - those who want listings to be spidered and those who would prefer if they weren't. I don't have a horse in this race either. I'll go with the flow of what the members want and what Clinton advises.
    As far as rule 7 goes, I would still advise against allowing hotlinking. I know it's common elsewhere especially with embedding youtube videos, but it didn't seem necessary in a business forum like this one where I was very liberal with allowing links. As long as there is that liberalism with links I still think embedding/hotlinking is unnecessary and problematic, but if you see good reason to allow some or all types of hotlinking then you should go with that.

    The latter part of the rule - about attracting discussion away from this forum - was to protect against people posting one line listings with a link to the full listing at some third party sites. Such listings serve no purpose for our members and the last thing we want is for regular Flippa sitesellers to post a one line thread here for every Flippa junk listing they've made. I felt the seller needed to take the time and trouble to explain here what he's selling or else it won't generate questions/discussion from buyers and other members.
    Find the right business brokers to maximise the value you extract from your business and improve the chances of selling your business.

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    Kay (9 August 2013)

  12. #30
    Moderator Kay is a Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton
    The latter part of the rule - about attracting discussion away from this forum - was to protect against people posting one line listings with a link to the full listing at some third party sites. Such listings serve no purpose for our members and the last thing we want is for regular Flippa sitesellers to post a one line thread here for every Flippa junk listing they've made. I felt the seller needed to take the time and trouble to explain here what he's selling or else it won't generate questions/discussion from buyers and other members.
    I fully support and understand that idea, which is why I included it in the new rule:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay
    ...However, please post the details of the site here and don't just drop a link to a sales page or marketplace listing elsewhere.
    We're probably all agreed about that.

    vB, whilst being the pro choice for a forum, isn't infallible and there are some functions it doesn't seem to handle well (we've had problems with attachments before). It still seems to be the best currently available forum software.

    Agree about hotlinking and embedding, and would add URL shorteners (which have also never been allowed here). They require too much policing and some monkey (usually me) has to check out each and every one of them.

    Going back to the first issue of whether the info of a sold site should be on public view, I don't really have any views either way. If I sold a site, I wouldn't care if a future buyer knew how much I'd initially paid for it. I'd not see that as being relevant information - it's more important to know what its income, traffic, and assets are now. What I bought it for previously is just history and doesn't necessarily help with a valuation of its present worth.

    Quote Originally Posted by tke71709
    And if I were selling a somewhat known site with a strong userbase, I might not want it to be common knowledge that the site is up for sale.
    If you don't want it to be common knowledge that you're selling your site, then don't list it on a public forum. There are plenty of ways to sell privately. Did I miss something?

    At this stage, we're only talking about the starter sites anyway. As grynge pointed out, the $1.99 isn't an attempt to make money. It's a way to weed out some of the trash. When it was free, it was a pain in the neck to check that every listing complied with the rules. Now, at least there isn't so much rubbish to deal with and I get a few coppers in my begging bowl for dealing with it. Actually, that's not true because people seem to think it's too expensive now so no one is listing. LOL.

    As far as I'm concerned the starter marketplace is somewhat peripheral to what EP is all about. But if people want to buy and sell starters, then why not?
    British Expat - helping people to live and work abroad since the year 2000.

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