+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: Paypal transactions become even riskier for website sellers

  1. #11
    Administrator Clinton is a Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    7,615
    Blog Entries
    31
    Thanks
    4,228
    Thanked 3,026 Times in 1,683 Posts
    Rep Power
    111
    A cautionary tale at NamePros: Thou shall not use Paypal
    Find the right business brokers to maximise the value you extract from your business and improve the chances of selling your business.

  2. #12
    Top Contributor grynge is a Premium Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    2,719
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thanks
    1,534
    Thanked 1,783 Times in 944 Posts
    Rep Power
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton View Post
    A cautionary tale at NamePros: Thou shall not use Paypal
    As paypal is a registered company in most countries, if you receive a chargeback and can prove you sent the domain, why not issue the person you sent the domain to and paypal a small claims court summons. My bet is paypal would soon find in your favour and return the money to your account. Of course this wouldn't work in all countries and wouldn't work for large sums of money, but anyting (here in Australia) under $6000 I am 100% confident you would get your money.
    And they thought me broken, that my tongue was coated lead, but I just couldn't make my words make sense to them, if you only listen with your ears ... I can't get in
    Non ducor, duco

  3. #13
    Dormant Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    This is sort of a scary thread - as mentioned paypal seems to be growing by leaps and bounds.
    But I am wondering - I can pretty much pull the money out of my paypal account almost immediately after it hits the PayPal Account . . . . what stops me as a seller from taking my money - considering that if there was a legitimate issue I would certainly return the funds - and if some scammer tried to charge the sale back - just closing the paypal account out and reopening another account - if there is no money in the PayPal account can they legally pull from the associated checking accounts or credit cards?
    I am curious how anyone could really make this "work" on a larger scale for smaller transactions - as I know from previous commercial credit card processing work - that any MasterCard or Visa processors will quickly charge back any charge when a buyer complains - their perspective is that their customer is the buyer - NOT the seller - and actually if you have an above average amount of charge backs most credit card processors will shut down your processing entirely and freeze your accounts too - this is why the "adult" online industry has such a slew of very complicated and advanced credit card processing systems to spread out the inevitable charge backs from the angry spouses. This processing seems like a great business for Flippa (or someone) to START to help their sellers out??

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SiteSpeculator For This Useful Post:

    Clinton (4 January 2012), KenW3 (4 January 2012)

  5. #14
    Administrator Clinton is a Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    7,615
    Blog Entries
    31
    Thanks
    4,228
    Thanked 3,026 Times in 1,683 Posts
    Rep Power
    111
    And using Paypal to pay for sites becomes even riskier today.

    Paypal's revised Terms and Conditions (who reads them, right?!):

    With effect from a date to be confirmed by PayPal in due course (falling on or after the Effective Date), section 13 will be amended to make several improvements to the PayPal Buyer Protection policy. The amendments will:
    1. improve the conditions of reimbursement under PayPal Buyer Protection for PayPal users registered as UK residents by:
      1. increasing the time allowed for buyers to raise a Dispute from 45 days to 180 days from the date on which payment was made; and
      2. extending the range of eligible purchases to cover :
        1. intangible items (including, without limitation, rights of access to digital content and other licences) ;
        2. services; and
        3. travel tickets (including, without limitation, airline flight tickets); and
    Find the right business brokers to maximise the value you extract from your business and improve the chances of selling your business.

  6. #15
    Top Contributor crabfoot is a Premium Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,193
    Blog Entries
    8
    Thanks
    489
    Thanked 1,991 Times in 1,038 Posts
    Rep Power
    57
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b040h14p

    Moneybox (Radio 4) said yesterday
    "The Intangibles
    PayPal is no longer inflexible about making intangibles ineligible. Its indefensible policy is infeasible and invertible. A change is incontrovertible, ineludible, and irreversible. But is what it is doing inducible? Find out."

     

    I listened but whatever it was didn't sink in - something about raising protection for purchasers to the level provided by credit cards.


    Good if you're buying - we all know how PayPal treats sellers...


  7. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
    Rep Power
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton View Post
    And using Paypal to pay for sites becomes even riskier today.
    Hi Clinton and all,

    Just to double check, you mean that it's now riskier for the seller, right?
    I have now a seller asking me to pay via Paypal. I always went for Escrow or Transpact, but it's a small amount and I understand that Paypal will stand on buyer' side in case of dispute.


    Thanks

  8. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    550
    Thanks
    51
    Thanked 278 Times in 120 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by danieleB View Post
    Hi Clinton and all,

    Just to double check, you mean that it's now riskier for the seller, right?
    I have now a seller asking me to pay via Paypal. I always went for Escrow or Transpact, but it's a small amount and I understand that Paypal will stand on buyer' side in case of dispute.


    Thanks

    Paypal is risky for the buyer and seller. Paypal is going to stand on Paypal's side. If there's a genuine fraudster on either side of the transaction who absconds with the goods/money, do you really think Paypal is going to make it good out of their own money? Hell no! Escrow is less risky, but not without risk.

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to petertdavis For This Useful Post:

    Chabrenas (1 June 2014), Clinton (30 May 2014), David S (30 May 2014), Kay (30 May 2014)

  10. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
    Rep Power
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by petertdavis View Post
    Paypal is risky for the buyer and seller. Paypal is going to stand on Paypal's side. If there's a genuine fraudster on either side of the transaction who absconds with the goods/money, do you really think Paypal is going to make it good out of their own money? Hell no! Escrow is less risky, but not without risk.
    In fact, the change that Clinton mentioned is not in the user agreement in my country (Netherlands).
    I see that intangible products are non eligible for Paypal Buyer Protection, so basically if a website is not delivered after payment you're on your own,right?

  11. #19
    Publishing Mentor dsieg58 is a Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Midwest-USA, Southeast Asia
    Posts
    1,024
    Thanks
    821
    Thanked 1,139 Times in 565 Posts
    Rep Power
    29
    I have had no problems winning chargebacks with PayPal and digital media. In fact, I win just about all of them. I have for years. The secret is, the more third party proof you have something (digital) was delivered, the stronger your case. In my case I have e-junkie do my cc processing so there is a download record there. (1st. proof) I have .java DRM on my eBooks which have to be registered. (This proves they were received and opened. (2nd. Proof) I have tracking set up on any tangible products mailed. (3rd. proof) If there is any sort of dispute (With digital 99% of the time is is because of nondelivery) I compile the various proofs up in a .pdf and send it to Paypal. I haven't lost yet. If you give PayPal something to work with, they WILL go to bat for the seller. But if you don't cover your ass and expect them to do all the heavy lifting there isn't a lot they can do.

    If it is a simple refund, then I just refund the amount and disable the eBook.

    I've heard PayPal horror stories for the last 10-15 years. I have never had a problem with them. True, I have redundant systems in place if I ever do, and I make sure I drain the account every week or two anyway to be on the safe side, but so far it has been a preventative measure that has never borne fruit.

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dsieg58 For This Useful Post:

    danieleB (2 June 2014), David S (1 June 2014), Kay (31 May 2014), KenW3 (31 May 2014)

  13. #20
    Top Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    919
    Thanks
    2,027
    Thanked 1,476 Times in 709 Posts
    Rep Power
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by dsieg58 View Post
    I've heard PayPal horror stories for the last 10-15 years. I have never had a problem with them.
    I've also read the stories. Selling both digital goods and physical, the most they've ever done is freeze the amount of a transaction in dispute. Once the dispute was resolved, either by refund or proof the product was delivered, my funds were released.

    Quote Originally Posted by petertdavis View Post
    If there's a genuine fraudster on either side of the transaction who absconds with the goods/money, do you really think Paypal is going to make it good out of their own money?
    I suppose if both sides to a transaction are criminals and this is known fraud, then it would not be PayPal's responsibility to guarantee a product. I have had PayPal both refund buyers -and- allow me to keep the payment for a sale (using their own money), both with digital and physical goods. (When this happens, I find it aggravating because I know the products were delivered and the buyers should not have been refunded.)

    Quote Originally Posted by dsieg58 View Post
    If you give PayPal something to work with, they WILL go to bat for the seller.
    PayPal doesn't build its business by making digital goods sales more risky for the seller. It's a matter of being professional as a business, and following PayPal guidelines. I am about to offer two new digital products for sale, and just reviewed the PayPal guidelines to see what, if anything, has changed. They have a Guide for digital goods, a Digital Goods FAQ, and a Best Practices Guide.

    As a business-person and business owner, if you are properly licensed, handle disputes professionally, follow their rules to the letter, then PayPal is just fine. There is no growth if they feed cynicism about their service, as business owners can be quite vocal about anything which costs them money. Every merchant account has rules to follow to deal with problems. My experience is that PayPal is no different.

    Quote Originally Posted by danieleB View Post
    Just to double check, you mean that it's now riskier for the seller, right?
    I have now a seller asking me to pay via Paypal.
    So you're on the other side of the transaction as a customer. As a seller, I've always felt the buyer had the greater protections from PayPal, but they act just like any credit card processor. (If you wish to avoid the wrath of PayPal as a buyer with a dispute, don't ever dispute a charge through the credit card assigned to a PayPal transaction; Instead, dispute directly through PayPal.) The above guides will also help clarify what PayPal expects from your seller in digital goods transactions.

    I recall an article from The Guardian on recent UK changes - here it is: PayPal shake-up protects buyers of 'intangibles'
    Last edited by KenW3; 31 May 2014 at 8:49 pm.

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to KenW3 For This Useful Post:

    carlpruitt (17 October 2014), Chabrenas (1 June 2014), Clinton (2 June 2014), danieleB (2 June 2014), David S (1 June 2014), Kay (31 May 2014)

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. How to deal with Paypal with Website deals
    By TeamFreedom in forum Due Diligence and Gotchas!
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 28 March 2012, 5:39 pm
  2. New Paypal Scam I just saw
    By grynge in forum General & Miscellaneous
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 7 May 2011, 8:21 pm
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 21 April 2011, 9:40 am
  4. FP - End of the Road for Turnkey Website Sellers?
    By Thomas in forum Site Flipping
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 26 March 2011, 8:17 pm

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts