Page Rank - what am I missing here?

**flipfilter** · October 8th, 2010, 7:43 AM

I've always been puzzled by Page Rank and I know this question is likely to attract the usual answer that page rank doesn't matter, but can anyone tell me if I'm missing something obvious here?

When Flip Filter went up in April / May I didn't make any consideration towards SEO - it was never really meant as a standalone site and sort of evolved. At present less than 20% of all new traffic comes from Google, and the traffic I do get I guess is down to a blog post making someone's Google Alert. The site's stats currently look like this:

Index Count: 14,400
Backlink - Page: 550
Backlink Domain: 758
BL - Edu / Gov: 2

Page Rank: 0????

The link profile is made up of a lot of comments and forum posts, but there are also some strong links from guest posts, press releases and reviews (such as Killerstartups). How is it that I still seem to be lacking in the page rank dept despite some other Adsense sites I own with less than 4 pages and a few questionable backlinks getting PR2 in next to no time?

Whilst I'm no Guru, I'd like to think I'm competent in SEO. I've been doing this since early 2000 and I have a few sites on page 1 for some fairly competitive keywords. However this has got me puzzled, not so much that Page Rank is necessary but more out of interest. Is there something I've missed?

Justin

**JJMcClure** · October 8th, 2010, 9:10 AM

How do you have 550 links from 758 different domains? That doesn't really add up, or am I misinterpreting the stats, does it mean pages that have backlinks rather than total backlinks?

The only way you can have zero PR is if:

1. All the links coming in are from zero PR pages or the links have all been discounted (both unlikley when they're from 758 different root domains)

2. There is PR but it's not enough to register 1 on the PR scale (it's logarithmic as I'm sure you know, I guess this option is possible)

3. Your PR meter is not showing your true PR (much more possible?)

Is this you? - http://www.flipfilter.com/

**flipfilter** · October 8th, 2010, 9:22 AM

Hi Rich

Backlinks - page is backlinks to specific (inner) pages whilst backlink - domain are backlinks to the domain as a whole or the root domain

Sorry forgot to add, yes that me!

**Clinton** · October 8th, 2010, 10:13 AM

I believe there's a random element to toolbar PR nowadays. As someone who has numerous greybarred sites, hundreds of PR0 and PR1 homepages, several PR2-5, more than a few PR6-7 pages, and who has been monitoring PR for many years, I believe there's a lot of dodgy stuff going on with toolbar PR - manual fiddles, random boosting up and boosting down, giving pages with no links PR3-4, giving highly linked pages PR1-2, manual drops for link selling/buying... and much else. I've seen pages move from a PR3 to a PR6 with just one new link from a z-list social bookmarking site. It's crazy.

**JJMcClure** · October 8th, 2010, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by flipfilter

Hi Rich

Backlinks - page is backlinks to specific (inner) pages whilst backlink - domain are backlinks to the domain as a whole or the root domain

Sorry forgot to add, yes that me!

Nice looking site mate.

Originally Posted by Clinton

I believe there's a random element to toolbar PR nowadays. As someone who has numerous greybarred sites, hundreds of PR0 and PR1 homepages, several PR2-5, more than a few PR6-7 pages, and who has been monitoring PR for many years, I believe there's a lot of dodgy stuff going on with toolbar PR - manual fiddles, random boosting up and boosting down, giving pages with no links PR3-4, giving highly linked pages PR1-2, manual drops for link selling/buying... and much else. I've seen pages move from a PR3 to a PR6 with just one new link from a z-list social bookmarking site. It's crazy.

Yeah, Google have been deliberately obfuscating the PR info for some time, they're quite open about the fact because they want people to know that attempting to manipulate their index through chasing/funneling/obsessing about PR is a no no. At some point they'll most likely just withdraw it altogether.

**dschall** · October 8th, 2010, 6:19 PM

Originally Posted by flipfilter

...can anyone tell me if I'm missing something obvious here?

When Flip Filter went up in April / May....

Early April was last time there was a Toolbar PR update.

http://googlepagerankupdate.com/ - not from G or official site or anything but this matches my records.

**flipfilter** · October 9th, 2010, 2:09 AM

Originally Posted by JJMcClure

Yeah, Google have been deliberately obfuscating the PR info for some time, they're quite open about the fact because they want people to know that attempting to manipulate their index through chasing/funneling/obsessing about PR is a no no. At some point they'll most likely just withdraw it altogether.

Thanks Rich. The worst part is, I've made little attempt to manipulate anything search related on the theory that good naturally linked content will triumph. Have I been misguided! Every article I write for the blog is just written with a "screw keywords, this is about the content" attitude. I guess crime / blackhat techniques do pay!....now where's my copy of Xrumer !

Originally Posted by Clinton

I've seen pages move from a PR3 to a PR6 with just one new link from a z-list social bookmarking site. It's crazy.

Fancy emailing my VA with the url

**ian** · October 9th, 2010, 2:48 AM

Originally Posted by flipfilter

Fancy emailing my VA with the url

Share the love, fellas!

**Clinton** · October 9th, 2010, 3:49 AM

If it could be reproduced I'd have shared it. Did you miss the "random" bit?

Flipfilter, I really wouldn't worry about PR. My 101 ways to make money online page has been consistently in place 1 or 2 for "make money online" in Google UK for years now. During that time it has swung from PR6 to PR4 to PR0 and now PR5 without the ranking being affected.

**flipfilter** · October 9th, 2010, 4:47 AM

Originally Posted by dschall

Early April was last time there was a Toolbar PR update.

http://googlepagerankupdate.com/ - not from G or official site or anything but this matches my records.

Thanks. I was under the impression there was one in September, but again, the PR thing continues to mystify me!

Clinton, I'm not really worried about it, just more fascinated if there is some form of science to it that I'm missing. I dont really rely on Google for new members so it's not a major issue at the moment, but I'd still like some recognition from the big G for the fact that we have solid, natural links, not a whole load of gamed, low PR 'crap-links'.

I guess, if the other big G (God not Google) is extremely bored one day and runs out good deeds to do, I'll be blessed with page rank 8 for all my hard work....until then, back to the grindstone