Seller RIPS OFF two people for $24,000... Intensive research reveals how he did it

[TrustButVerify]

Hey Guys!

Have I got a story for you!

I spent about 4 hours researching this website because it indeed seemed too good to be true.

Here's the cliff notes:

Seller posts ad on craigslist for www.writearesume.net

2010-02-11_1029.jpg

Oddity #1: Seller posts in multiple cities across the entire country as well as on eBay - price varies from $8500 - $14000

Ebay Listing
ebay scam.jpg


Speak with seller - chats me up about how he needs money for his new website www.seniorjobs.net - says he can drop the price to $7500

I request proof of stats.

He sends me ONE YEAR's worth of paypal statements and webalizer stats for January.

Oddity #2 Paypal statements DO NOT SHOW business name or any other identifying information.

Seller claims the site gets about 100 uniques a day and makes 2-3 sales per day. All traffic comes from the keyword "write a resume" which makes the traffic highly targeted. Website is on page 2 of google and page 1 of yahoo.

Webalizer seems to support this and it seems logical. He even offers to install google analytics and add me as a user to verify the stats. (wow - this guy is good!)

I start to investigate - copyscape shows a TON of sites with duplicate content... exact clones of site.

Seller claims he sold "turnkey" versions of the site to people in the past.

Oddity #3: Investigation shows those "turnkey" sites have recently updated WHOIS information... like last month.

More investigation shows seller owns many sites in the resume niche (clones) all with the same WHOIS information.

Oddity #4: The payment gateway is different for various websites owned by seller - some are clickbank, some are google check out and some are paypal.

As I keep digging down I find almost the exact same ad placed on eBay, same income-claims but DIFFERENT URL: www.resumeadvice.org

http://www.findcheapauctions.com/ebay/300353017774.html

More investigation shows expired craigslist ads showing same exact business for sale, exact same monthly revenue, some ad but DIFFERENT URL.

craigslist.jpg

Ads are expired and from December.

I think to myself: "SCAM ALERT - SCAM ALERT - SCAM ALERT"

Well, now this is getting interesting... I figure I can't just stop now, so onward I go...

I called the WHOIS phone number on three of the sites I found that had recently changed owners:

I contacted two of them.

www.resume-format.net
Buyer #1: A restaurant owner from Texas, looking to invest into a new business. Paid $14,000 for the site, found from craigslist. Seller sent him about 3 YEARS worth of paypal income statements (just like me). Seller offered to use escrow.com but at the last minute "needed" money sent by check.

After about 10 days he made one sale ($19.95). Tried to call back seller, no response. The buyer still does get about 50-100 uniques a day and does get a few sales a month.

www.resume-objective.net
Buyer #2: A young guy with a computer consultant business looking to get into internet marketing. Paid $10,000 bank check via FedEx, found from craigslist.

Not making many sales, but does get about 100 uniques a day. Tried to contact seller, no response... just wrote it off as a "learning experience".


The general consensus from talking to these guys is that the paypal account that he shows documentation from is actually a collective account for several different resume type sites.

He in fact does make about $1100 from his entire network of websites and sells just the one.

Most people might feel that non-identifying documents are enough, obviously the previous buyers did.

My take away points:

The seller was very convincing and really only had to scam these buyers on one area - the income claims. He provided non-identifying documentation which seemed very thorough.

The sites he's selling actually do have age and traffic and he has owned them for a long time (as long as 2002) - a rarity for most scammers.

I would always recommend using escrow.com and use an inspection period of 7-14 days to verify income claims and traffic personally.

In the past I have been hesitant to ask for this because obviously it's inconvenient for the seller but this changed my perspective.

I'd also requesting screen capture proof using a free software called www.jingproject.com


What's scary about this is how excited I got about potentially buying a site for about 7 months income.

It was the same excitement that got these other buyers scammed out of $24,000.

So... whaddya think?

[tke71709]

So... whaddya think?

I think you have a future in copywriting, great title for your post.

Just shows how many ways that there are to get scammed in this business. That would be a tough one to avoid, the only thing you could ask for is to switch the paypal account for several days to see if the sales do come through but even then he could just order up a bunch himself to make it look good.

[benitez17]

Nice post, and good job keeping your head on straight when being presented with what looks like a great opportunity.

This is a perfect example of why I don't accept Paypal statements as proof of revenue, because there is no way to verify a link between the site for sale and the Paypal account. That doesn't even take into account that the majority of Paypal screenshots I have been sent appear to be doctored.

There are so many opportunities to buy sites that if anything feels even the least bit suspicious with a specific sale, I just move on.

[Clinton]

Diego79 (namechange to TrustButVerify), fantastic post and a great job on the investigation! I really enjoyed reading this.

Oddity 1: Can I ask how you found his other listings for the same site in ebay etc?

I called the WHOIS phone number on three of the sites I found that had recently changed owners:

I contacted two of them.

Nice touch. If people took this elementary step before buying sites in Flippa I reckon they'd pull out of at least 10% of the sales there. And 90% of the buys in eBay.

[DomainMagnate]

Hey Diego, nice research! I just looked quickly at some of the sites you mentioned but judging by alexa and low backlink counts I wouldn't expect they get much traffic or sale.

[TrustButVerify]

I think you have a future in copywriting, great title for your post.

Thanks!

Oddity 1: Can I ask how you found his other listings for the same site in ebay etc?

I just googled sections of his ad. Like different snippets of the ad it self. As I've heard you say before it doesn't take many words to get a unique identifying fingerprint in google (or copyscape for that matter)!

Nice touch. If people took this elementary step before buying sites in Flippa I reckon they'd pull out of at least 10% of the sales there. And 90% of the buys in eBay.

Absolutely right... stepping into the real world and calling people can give you more information than google ever could.

Although it's a bit of a wierd conversation starter.... "Hi, you don't know me, but I have a funny question for you... do you own a site about resumes?"


I also didn't mention the two other people I called that appeared to be in on the scam.... perhaps a family member or relative.

I called the WHOIS owner for www.Resume-Letter.org because I thought he was also scammed (his address/phone were different)... when I told him that people had been scammed he was groping for words... yet he claimed that "someone" must have ripped off his site and how he can't believe it...

I tell you that this guy sounded like he was LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH... then I researched it further and found that the payment was going to the same paypal address as the scammer!!!


Oddly enough, the seller/scammer had told me that he also helping some cousin/relative get into internet marketing... I wonder if this was him?

At first I thought he might have just bought the domain and hadn't changed the paypal address or was a newbie.... so to confirm I asked him how old his site was... his response... I've had it for years and it's been making money for a while... and that he "created" the site...

HHhmmmmm... sure you did

Domain Name:RESUME-LETTER.ORG
Created On:11-Jan-2010 21:42:23 UTC
Last Updated On:11-Jan-2010 21:42:23 UTC
Expiration Date:11-Jan-2011 21:42:23 UTC

Good times!

[Michelle]

Seems that Craigslist could be a good place to sell sites!

Ringing the whois numbers, loved that! Thanks for sharing all the details; very enlightening.

[tvanslooten]

Holy cow...I'm impressed with your thoroughness. This post should be a must read for any newbie to site flipping. What an eye opener! I was burned on my first deal so I feel for those buyers you talked to. Thankfully, my "learning experience" only cost me about $6,000.

Did you ever confront the seller with all this information? It would be interesting to see what his/her response was...lol.

Travis

[TrustButVerify]

Holy cow...I'm impressed with your thoroughness. This post should be a must read for any newbie to site flipping. What an eye opener! I was burned on my first deal so I feel for those buyers you talked to. Thankfully, my "learning experience" only cost me about $6,000.

Did you ever confront the seller with all this information? It would be interesting to see what his/her response was...lol.

Scammers like these tend to be slippery like eels, pathological liars with little sense of ethics or morals... it can only get more sticky... so I would try to avoid a direct confrontation... plus my only goal was to research the site... objective complete!

[leadegroot]

A scammer with this MO who will foolishly give you access to Google Analytics on the site should be easy to catch - drill down to hostnames (visitor -> network properties -> hostnames) and look at all the different sites.
Not what the scammer wants you to see