Advertising is evil!

[Andy]

Gee, maybe I ought to stay out of this discussion. I'd say this thread is evil!

First I find myself agreeing with JJMcClure - GASP! about marketing and advertising being different. And now, as someone who felt he was "home" from the moment I heard marketing defined - and who has avoided politics for decades as being too sordid for my lily white... reputation. I'm wounded. I want to crawl into a hole and die. I have to confess... I've always considered myself a marketer first!

About advertising... is it evil? I don't think so.

Lying is evil. Misrepresentation is evil. Advertising that lies or "misrepresents" i.e. that Big Mac photo is wrong. (Of course, I've always thought Big Macs were evil incarnate while Whoppers rock, but I digress.)

I've always envisioned advertising having its beginning in an open market somewhere when a merchant selling apples polished his up and called out to a passerby saying "Isn't this the most delicious looking apple you've ever seen?"

Did he lie? No. But he also did not mention that those ugly, deformed apples down the road tasted 10X better.

Human nature might suggest that most people seeing both apples side by side would choose the pretty apple over the ugly one anyway. Go figure.

Copywriting or the writing side of advertising, and I do consider myself a copywriter, is often called "persuasion in print". And indeed the sole purpose and intent of copywriting, and, by extension, advertising, is to persuade people to take a certain action. And that action often entails parting with cold, hard cash.

Just as the sole purpose of a screwdriver is to turn a screw.

And as a screwdriver can be turned to evil purposes, yes, even murder most distasteful, advertising can utilized for bad as well as good purposes. Neither renders the tool evil nor makes it good. It is a tool. No more. No less.

Personally, I feel wasted advertising is evil. What is wasted advertising? Advertising that is not tracked and modified to enhance its effectiveness. What is effective advertising? Advertising that persuades.

Every day we are bombarded with ineffective advertising. It is just plain wrong.

Several times I made the mistake of clicking on an ad. For weeks, the add followed me around on the Internet. Was this effective? Not at all. I made my decisions to buy or not buy base on other factors. At some point the advertising may have been effective in that it may have brought my attention to a product at some point. But beyond that, the ads ceased to be effective and then became annoying. Furthermore, that same advertising prevented me from finding out about other products I may have wanted. What were they? I don't know. I never saw them. And from there on, bad advertising became bad marketing.

Yes they are different, advertising and marketing. But advertising is a part of marketing and at some point one does affect the other.

By the way, was it wrong for the merchant to call out to that person passing by? i don't think so but it certainly open for debate.

Andy

[Clinton]

Human nature might suggest that most people seeing both apples side by side would choose the pretty apple over the ugly one anyway.

And that's fine if they do it of their own free will with no input from a seller using psychology to exploit personality flaws for his own monetary gratification.

That's ultimately what all sellers do, they seek out weak spots, take advantage of those weak spots, make profit. You and I do it when we're selling sites just as we tart our houses and cars up before prospective buyers visit. Sellers may employ advertising, they may employ marketing in some way, shape or form; but ultimately the goal is mercenary - the least noble of reasons to pursue an action.

Personally, I feel wasted advertising is evil.

The best advertising is wasted advertising as no action results from it Further, sustained wasted advertising may lead to a frustrated advertiser giving up and going away to become an organic farmer or something.

<added>And why does everyone say GASP! when they agree with JJMcClure?! Leave the poor guy alone!

There's a classic bit in 'Super size me' where some marketing mouthpiece representing the fast food companies accidently states 'fast food companies are part of the problem', does a double take, tries to take it back but can't cos it's on film. He got sacked three weeks later.

Marketing damages your personality and moral fibre as your brain becomes seeped in duplicity and adept at pushing a message over following the natural human instinct to share knowledge. The more sophisticated your market and competitors the more you've got to seek new ways to exploit the consumer and it more it damages you as a person.

[JJMcClure]

[offtopic]

<added>And why does everyone say GASP! when they agree with JJMcClure?! Leave the poor guy alone!

lol, that's just what I was thinking... thanks.

[/offtopic]

I guess we're lucky we have the Advertising Standards Authority to keep some of the players in check, if enough complaints come in they have to do something. How to complain.

My personal bug bear is advertising aimed at children, I think it's morally wrong since they generally have no money anyway and aren't intellectually capable of making judgements about products or services. We can thank McDonalds for really kick starting that practice, they currently target 2 year olds to establish a life long brand loyalty and have been one of the major proponents of 'pester power'.

Children and advertising

[Andy]

And that's fine if they do it of their own free will with no input from a seller using psychology to exploit personality flaws for his own monetary gratification.

That's ultimately what all sellers do, they seek out weak spots, take advantage of those weak spots, make profit. You and I do it when we're selling sites just as we tart our houses and cars up before prospective buyers visit. Sellers may employ advertising, they may employ marketing in some way, shape or form; but ultimately the goal is mercenary - the least noble of reasons to pursue an action.


The best advertising is wasted advertising as no action results from it Further, sustained wasted advertising may lead to a frustrated advertiser giving up and going away to become an organic farmer or something.

<added>And why does everyone say GASP! when they agree with JJMcClure?! Leave the poor guy alone!


Marketing damages your personality and moral fibre as your brain becomes seeped in duplicity and adept at pushing a message over following the natural human instinct to share knowledge. The more sophisticated your market and competitors the more you've got to seek new ways to exploit the consumer and it more it damages you as a person.

Clinton,

All I can say is... we are approaching this topic from totally different perspectives. I'm not sure we'll ever understand one another.

Andy

[Andy]

[offtopic]



lol, that's just what I was thinking... thanks.

[/offtopic]

I guess we're lucky we have the Advertising Standards Authority to keep some of the players in check, if enough complaints come in they have to do something. How to complain.

My personal bug bear is advertising aimed at children, I think it's morally wrong since they generally have no money anyway and aren't intellectually capable of making judgements about products or services. We can thank McDonalds for really kick starting that practice, they currently target 2 year olds to establish a life long brand loyalty and have been one of the major proponents of 'pester power'.

Children and advertising

Rich, we seem to be at odds so much I just HAD to say SOMEthing.

There's an old book out there "The Man Who Invented Saturday Morning" that offers an interesting perspective on the subject of children and ads.

Andy

[Clinton]

Andy, we are looking at different angles, but I didn't think you'd give up as easily as Kay did

Damn, it looks like even JJMcClure isn't going to argue against me. YIKES! What's happening to this place?

[Andy]

Andy, we are looking at different angles, but I didn't think you'd give up as easily as Kay did

Damn, it looks like even JJMcClure isn't going to argue against me. YIKES! What's happening to this place?

Clinton,

A long time ago, I grew tired of trying to persuade the convicted. Often the contested points are a matter of bias than fact. That bias comes from both sides.

For example: JJMcClure (Rich) and I have some very different opinions on a number of topics. One of them concerns a popular search engine I call G. After several go rounds, I came to the conclusion that further debate is futile. I've said what I have to say on the subject, my opinion is fairly well known, thus I see no point in continuing. Just as I'm not going to change Rich's opinion on this topic and he is not going to change mine. I also don't think I'm going to change anyone else's opinion on the subject - IF anyone else even cares.

I feel the same about this discussion. Rather than try to convince anybody that advertising is neither good nor bad but a tool that can benefit not only the advertiser but also the consumer, I'd prefer to help those who want to learn how to advertise effectively. I feel both my time and efforts are more productive in this area.

Andy

[Kay]

Andy, we are looking at different angles, but I didn't think you'd give up as easily as Kay did

Huh? I didn't give up. I just wore out my soap box and now I need a new one. Send me the money and I'll be back up on the new one pronto. Oh, you are very cheeky.

Advertising can be great!

Watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ve4M4UsJQo

As an advert, IMO it's crap - it didn't make me want to buy the car. I don't have a car anyway, mostly because I'm a terrible driver (I had 17 "bumps" in one day. I hate driving.) But the advert is a great piece of art, and apparently it cost several million USD to make. Waste of money, I think, but something wonderful for people to enjoy.

I don't know if you watch The Apprentice; Alan Sugar is very disparaging about adverts, because a lot of them are very arty (like the one I just linked to) and they don't really tell you anything about the product at all.

Buy me a new soap box and bring it on. I haven't given up.

[Andy]

The irony of this thread is... most of the site owners reading this would be out of business if it were not for advertising.

G would be a minor player on the Internet if it were not for advertising.

E-commerce would be non-existent if it were not for advertising.

Would this forum exist if advertising didn't exist?

Would the Internet?

I wonder.

Andy

[Clinton]

Of course people like me wouldn't be making a living if advertising doesn't exist! People wanting to advertise on my sites keeps me comfortably in the money. It means I don't need to wake up at 4.00 every morning and head out in all weather to tend to the cows. In that sense it's brilliant.

Our society just wouldn't be the same and all the modern conveniences we enjoy just wouldn't exist.

But would a world devoid of commercial advertising necessarily be a worse world? Some avid consumers may think not. They want feeds on the latest technology gimmicks, best holiday destinations and material products that they feel enhance their lives. Marketing generates demand, creates want, fulfills desires and creates happiness. But it's not a nice type of happiness. It's happiness reliant on possessions, reliant on being able to afford more than one's peers. Marketing makes people happy ....and makes humans a miserable race.