Bummer. Have you seen this? -Justice Department: Full Tilt Poker was a Ponzi schemeOriginally Posted by benitez17
What a crock, they're just trying to make it look as bad as they can but the american public fall for that kind of crap all the time, otherwise how do you explain Sarah Palin?
Uh, as far as I can tell, it was a Ponzi scheme. They were relying on deposits from new players to pay investors and owners. It was a scam, not a casino.
I could easily argue that the US government's refusal to legalize online gambling is to blame here, as criminals are able to operate in this legal gray area without any regulation, and their victims have no real recourse. If they were regulated like B&M casinos, this would be less likely to occur.
Online gambling is wildly popular in the US, despite the restrictions. I still don't understand why it hasn't been legalized, because it's an easy source of revenue for the government and most people don't have an issue with gambling. I personally won't do it because of the job I have, but I know dozens of people that play poker online, and almost all of them spread their money around between several casinos to protect themselves against a site getting shut down in the US.
Palin wore out her welcome ages ago. She was the simple-minded choice of a poorly run (and desperate at that point) campaign that was trying to grab female voters that were fired up to vote for Hillary Clinton but couldn't when she didn't win her party's nomination. Her books don't sell any longer, her appearances aren't well attended, and her opinion is irrelevant. She's a joke, as she now deserves to be based on her behavior.
Any other stereotypes about Americans you'd like to me to debunk? Usually the next remark is something about gun toting lunatics or religious fanatics, if that helps get the ball rolling.
It was legal, then somebody told Dubya how much money was leaking out of the US because the average US poker player was a turkey. Dubya stopped it, and all the US based online casinos had to STOP and be restructured overnight.I still don't understand why it hasn't been legalized, because it's an easy source of revenue for the government and most people don't have an issue with gambling.
I am an average to middling poker player, and when the US was part of the online poker scene I could make a living very easily. I only play for entertainment now ...
One of these days, I'd love to play some hold'em with people on EP. That'd be fun. I still have a lot to learn about poker, and play much too tight. If you played on Party Poker, I'd bet I lost to you at some point back when it was legal in the US.
More practice and study never hurts. Just to be helpful, Dolly's super system book is completely wrong - had to read it a couple times just to know for sure. Caro couldn't tell you a thing about people and how they play, as the guy is just border-line insane. Everybody knows Sklansky's theories and math just make play boring, and it is excitement that makes poker worthwhile. I wish I knew what reading the board or putting people on hands meant, but that will come with enough practice.
I can assure you I would never four bet you preflop, unless I have a really good hand. I would never check raise, unless I'm sitting on the nuts. I could never trap - don't know how. Trust me, I'm a nice guy at a poker table, and would never want to hand anyone a bad beat, so that's the reason for playing tight.
Oddly enough, the only time I don't seem to be quite as tight a player is when I'm at a table where I have to give action to get action, but that's just an illusion. It's not my fault that I have a high VPIP.
I don't think that's right. They used players deposits to pay investors which left them with a cash flow issue in that they couldn't pay if everyone suddenly decided to withdraw their money, that's not the same as relying on new players deposits which I agree would qualify it as a Ponzi.
When we have the equivalent of FAUX news and CNN, the Bible belt and the Teaparty or elect someone like GW or fail so badly to seperate church and state in this country you can talk to me about stereotypes. The American public is used to a diet of base, emotive argument and manipulation that is passed off as news or informed opinion. When Sarah Palin was trying to discredit the guy who wrote a recent book about her she brought up the fact that that he'd rented a nearby property that 'overlooked her kids paddling hole' (paraphrase) to try and make it look like he was creepy pervert. Come on, in what other 1st world country would such a high level politician ever stoop to such a ridiculously transparent and obvious ploy, they'd be too embarrassed.
Stereotyping has got nothing to do with this, there's no need to get defensive because you think I'm being ignorant, I do know a little bit about the US.
Last edited by JJMcClure; September 30th, 2011 at 3:39 AM.
I got as far as setting up a 'home game' on Poker Stars so we could play but it never happened.
Check raising is a great way to bluff the flop out of position against someone with a high cbet percentage.
4betting light is the new PFR
I've read all the books you mention, I feel the same way about the 'super system', it's out of date now big time. Caro is spot on with his tells though and Sklansky, well he's a winning player too and if you play online you have to know the maths because you can't read people's souls like in live poker. If you rely totally on physical tells, you're going get creamed online.
I'm not a nice guy at the poker table, those people want my money and I want theirs, it's a game and the goal is to win. I don't see how you can be 'not nice' at an online poker table.
They relied on people depositing more money to pay investors and keep things going. It's not a perfect example of a Ponzi scheme since it doesn't involve an investment, but I think it's close enough to justify use of the term to quickly explain what was going on.
I don't understand what you believe the American public is falling for here. It was an unquestionable scam, unless you are claiming that the US government shut it down because it was one of the more popular US gambling sites and invented this story and the evidence supporting it to justify their actions or have some other similar conspiracy theory.
Seriously? I had actually started to write a long reply to this pointing out the continued popularity of The Sun and other similar tabloid newspapers in the UK, the endless stream of scandals, lies, and dirty politics emanating from Parliment, how Blair was Bush's cheerleader and partner for almost their entire time in office together, and the actions and opinions some of the less enlightened citizens of the UK, but I realized that it's not worth my time, plus I actually like the UK and have spent enough time there and in other nations to understand that small segments of the population don't represent the entire nation, no matter how much press they receive, or no matter how much they justify one's feelings of superiority.
Every nation has its idiots, its fringe movements, its corrupt politicians, its tabloid media, and its uninformed citizens that would rather bash others and blindly rally around their own flag than worry about getting their own house in order.
I'm not getting defensive because I think you're being ignorant, I'm pointing out that it's obvious you know very little about the US, and you hadn't even bothered to find a decent justification to insult the country's citizens, but just couldn't pass up on what you saw to be an opportunity.
I'm glad I was able to predict your next couple insults. Maybe you should try a little harder next time if you seriously want to discuss America, its culture, and its entire population, rather than just parroting the talking points you got on Reddit or some other similar website.
Last edited by benitez17; September 30th, 2011 at 7:22 AM.
Maybe you didn't get my PM in time or maybe you just ignored it and decided to publicy gore me. Fair enough, I deserve it for the tone and language of my post and I apologise for that, but now you've cemented the tone.
I've lived in America and we have a steady diet of american culture in this country, it's common for non-americans to know more about america than most americans (I'm talking about the 90% that don't have passports and the 30% that can't find america on a map, did you know more Canadians can find america on a map than can americans?), when I travelled around america I understood accents wherever I was and was familiar with the lifestyle whereas most americans thought I was Australian.
I think I'm qualified to have this discussion which despite what you think isn't me just trying to 'insult the country's citizens', seriously... why would you even say that? In fact that kind of statement is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Base sweeping emotive generalisations intended to discredit and undermine by appealing to emotion rather than reason. I'm insulting your citizens therefore my point isn't valid... come on. Even Bill O'Reilly can do better than that.
So, my ex-americaphile credentials aside, I think I have a point. But really I'm not willing to discuss it further in this atmosphere. It could be an interesting discussion about how the media communicate, or not.
(By the way, I 100% agree with you about The Sun but unlike you I'm not going to assume that you're insulting the entire population of my country)
No it's not because they weren't relying on new investors, they simply spent money that wasn't theirs, if that makes them a Ponzi then so's the entire world banking system, it's not a Ponzi scheme no matter how it's spun.
Rhetoric and name calling doesn't make something true even if it sways and influences the uneducated masses. Some people fall for it though.
Last edited by JJMcClure; September 30th, 2011 at 8:39 AM.
There's no bigger Ponzi scheme than that of the British government. American politicians, even given their profligacy, lack the stealth, cunning, window dressing and fiddling ours have become past masters at. From moving liabilities off balance sheet to the National Insurance Fund (which doesn't exist! NI contributions are treated the same as PAYE i.e. income tax), to PFI to public sector pension liabilities ... the British politicians are the world's biggest crooks. African dictators come here for lessons before raping their respective economies.
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Fascinating and possibly true but not pertinent to the discussion I was trying to have which was about how the US media use emotive base argument to sway public opinion. Imagine the style of The Sun and the Daily Mail but orders of magnitude greater in use and effect, that's what I'm talking about.
I'd prefer my deviation not to get deviated, at least not till the first subject has been covered, but I think I'm going to come back after the weekend to allow tempers to cool.
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