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Thread: Totally new to this...what should I do?

  1. #31
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    Lightbulb Winning

    Almost any category you go into, in Google, is dominated by black hat SEO. There is one thing Google doesn't tell you. They know about the black hat techniques and look the other way because it is good for their revenue. In fact, a good black hat SEO is "good", in Google's eyes, because they deliver targeted results that have good conversion rates and that is what they are after - helping advertisers make money. If you help advertisers, then Google likes you. The other thing is that as you build trust with Google they will start to give your sites preference over other sites for no other reason than you are someone they like. That means you can start a completely new site and get a bit of a leg up. So, what is winning? All things being equal, a black hat SEO can make 100 times more money than a white hat SEO. And, it isn't all bad. They are good at providing targeted results that are good for advertisers. Black hat SEO is still smart enough to throw enough white hat, into the mix, to stay on top. Contrary to popular belief, black hat SEO doesn't just fall out of the rankings. Is it all bad? Consider the case of farming. Is it fair that a farmer, with a combine, can harvest 10,000 times more wheat, in a day, than another farmer that only has a sickle. Is it fair that one farmer has developed superior wheat varieties through genetic research and gets superior yields? Now to examine SEO. Is it fair that someone with an automated link builder can create 10,000 more links than someone that does it by hand? Is it fair that some black hat SEOs have devised ways to beat Google through doing a lot of research? Is it fair that one guy can rank for thousands of keywords, in the same amount of time, that another guy ranks for one long tail keyword? So, do I like black hat SEO. No, actually I don't. However, every niche I find is either untouched or soon found out by a black hat SEO. Here are my options, 1- win on one or two niches by following Googles guidelines or 2- play like the guys that are kicking ass. I would certainly rather win in a lot of niches. One day, it would be awesome if Google caught up with these black hatters, to level the playing field. However, it certainly looks like that is never going to happen. Why do I say this? They know about it and yet they still give the black hatter #1, #2, #3, and so on. I think the bottom line is this. If you are good for the advertisers, Google will love you. How you accomplish the task is not Googles main concern. All the algorithmn does is make the search results make sense. Even if you manipulate the algorithmn it will still serve the purpose of delivering targeted results and that is Google's ultimate goal- not to be the police. Just because a site is white hat doesn't make it good. A lot of the time, the black hat search result deserves it just because there is no white hat competition anyway.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Almost any category you go into, in Google, is dominated by black hat SEO. There is one thing Google doesn't tell you. They know about the black hat techniques and look the other way because it is good for their revenue.
    My bolding. This may or may not be true. Is there anything in particular that makes you believe that it's true?

    Just to give a more balanced view, most searches I perform don't include sites that you'd call blackhat. That's not to say that BH is or isn't tolerated by Google. It's just a balanced view in the absence of any facts that prove it one way or the other.

  3. #33
    Administrator Clinton is a Premium Member
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    I hear what you're saying, hooperman, and I agree that it would seem not in keeping with the Google ethos to favour sites just because it's good for their bottom line. In fact, many could come up with evidence that Google doesn't do this - for example, the algorithm governing PPC rankings in Adwords which is not designed to put the highest bidders on top.

    But with these searches that you perform where you don't find BH sites in the results, how do you know they haven't used BH?
    Find the right business brokers to maximise the value you extract from your business and improve the chances of selling your business.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton View Post
    But with these searches that you perform where you don't find BH sites in the results, how do you know they haven't used BH?
    Good point, and I don't know for sure. It's more accurate to say that most of the time I'm satisfied with what results I get in the SERPs.

    My point was that based on seeing BH sites in the SERPs, I can't know that Google are aware of those sites and look the other way. Likewise, if I never saw a BH site in the SERPs, I couldn't know that Google want to get rid of all BH.

    Plenty of people will argue that Google allowing BH will make the searcher's experience worse and they will vote with their feet and use other search engines. I'm not even sure that deliberately allowing BH is good for Google's revenue. Whitehat sites make Google advertsing revenue too.

    I'm not averse to believing that Google turn a blind eye to BH, but I'd need some compelling evidence to do that, not speculation.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton View Post
    for example, the algorithm governing PPC rankings in Adwords which is not designed to put the highest bidders on top.
    Don't fall into that trap.

    The ads that pay the most are not necessarily the ads that generate the most revenue.

    For example.

    3 ads

    Ad A = $1 CPC, 1% CTR
    Ad B = $0.50 CPC, 2.2% CTR
    Ad C = $0.20 CPC, 10% CTR

    Over 1000 adviews and assuming that CTR remained constant, Ad A would generate $10 in revenue, Ad B would generate $11 in revenue, and Ad C would generate $20 in revenue for Google. The exact inverse to the cost per click.

    Google doesn't do anything out of the goodness of it's heart, it doesn't put the highest bidders on top, it puts the ads that generate the most revenue on top.

    Which would you prefer as a company?

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    I mostly do MFA sites. I try to give good quality original content. Going forward I am going to make these sites bigger than the typical 5 page MNS. One thing about Adsense is even though I have a good formula for picking keywords (from Court Tuttle's Keyword Academy) whereby I can make sites that should make $XXX/month some keywords just don't seem to lens themselves to very good CTRs. It takes experience and that takes time.
    BH stuff? I'm all for automation, not above spamming comments with what I hope is decent commentary, would like to be able to afford SERPS Assist or SENuke...Google is looking out for themselves, bottom line, and I intend to do the same.

    BTW I'm a flipper as well with the Killer Flipping Secrets lot.

  7. #37
    Administrator Clinton is a Premium Member
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    Hi Tempest, and welcome to experienced-people.net

    What's an MNS? And what's this SERP assist and SE Nuke about?

    You are absolutely right that Adsense takes not just good keywords, it's takes a lot of time and patience and - despite what many people think - a lot of work testing, revising and retesting.
    Find the right business brokers to maximise the value you extract from your business and improve the chances of selling your business.

  8. #38
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    Red face Google Looks the Other Way on Black Hat

    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton View Post
    Almost any category you go into, in Google, is dominated by black hat SEO. There is one thing Google doesn't tell you. They know about the black hat techniques and look the other way because it is good for their revenue.
    Suppose you look into a niche category and start studying the backlinks. You will find that they are 95-99% artificial and that is black hat, according to Google. The only way, to know, is to thoroughly check out the backlinks on the competing sites.

    Here is the reason that you know Google looks the other way. You can report the site a million times to Google and the site will still maintain its position in the serps. Some of these adsense publishers are huge, making millions on adsense. If you maintain that Google is smart and knows what they are doing, how can you explain a publisher that has thousands of niches with 95-99% artificial linking and is dominating in almost every niche they are into.

    You would think Google would catch on after the sites are reported to Google and after monitoring the adsense publisher that puts up new niches every single day. The final result is still a good SERP for the category, even with artificial linking. Out of all the millions or thousands of pages, in the SERPs, the artificial links simply point to the "mother sites". That simply tells Google which site to put up there and Google is, in a way saying, "Thank you for helping us determine who is the most serious publisher, in this niche. Here are your SERP rewards."

    Who deserves to get the SERP, anyway? A small guy who builds a bunch of content on one site, or another guy that builds 2000 sites as backlinks to a larger site that also has content. I would think that Google likes the good artificial linking for the simple fact it makes the job of ranking the niche easier for them. What Google really wants is a publisher that is serious enough to make targeted results that will result, in conversions, for advertisers. If the black hat technique offers better resources for Google to rank it and offers good conversions, why would Google drop the SERP? Are they really that concerned about being fair? If they were, they wouldn't offer artificial leg up campaigns to preferred publishers that are very large.

    For PR, Google must maintain that the playing field is fair and yet most SEOs will agree that the playing field is getting harder for the small guy to get a foothold. Like other industries, the internet is maturing and that is an inevitable part. However, I still think it's one of the best opportunities for a regular person to get into and make some real money. Don't feel like there is no chance for a regular guy. All it means is that you can't rank for a thousand niches in three months time and make millions. Instead, you can dominate a few smaller niches and make some regular income.
    Last edited by Clinton; 30 July 2010 at 11:47 am. Reason: formatting clean up per tke71709's suggestion below

  9. #39
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    Thanks Clinton,
    MNS are micro niche sites, generally made for Adsense, a method made popular by Warrior Forums Xfactor, the Fat Cat Blueprint, etc. SENuke and SERPS Assist are, of course, automated back link making software, competitors to one another. I've never used either but I'm looking hard at SA and another XGen SEO, another up and comer. These two are $77 and $79/month, respectively, far cheaper than SEN's $127/month.

  10. #40
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    Enter key, or use a different program to cut and paste responses from Rover.

    You probably have something useful in your post but it's not readable in that format.

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