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  1. #11
    Top Contributor crabfoot is a Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenW3 View Post
    The entertainment business has a lot of money in it, but is an absolute minefield of misery for anyone not willing to follow the rules. If you're going to do this, cover your bases and do your research. Trying any of this without being completely legal, no matter where you live, would make for a rather difficult future.
    Minefield is the word - in UK it is very difficult to get by a lot of the legal stuff without having a B&M biz - a lot of the existing promoters have a nightclub which serves that purpose, registered as an employment agency to get around other problems.

    I'd suggest a blog with an RSS feed to work towards a site which aims to be the place people go to find out "what's on" - nothing but links out to real music, but a lot of info about where it is happening.

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  3. #12
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    grynge:

    You mean as long as I dont upload them to youtube ?
    I would want the viewers to be able to listen to the music on my website, and then I would have a link to where they can legally buy the song and support the artist.

    Financeguy:

    I want to stay completely legal, this way the artist can gain what he/she deserves and it can help them grow! I wouldnt want to send people to places where they can illegally download the music.
    As I say, I would only have two links on my website, one would be the embedded youtube video of a song, the other would be a link to a legal place to buy the said song.

    crabfoot:

    B&M biz ?
    What are the main problems I would have to watch out for with my plan ?

    'I'd suggest a blog with an RSS feed to work towards a site which aims to be the place people go to find out "what's on" - nothing but links out to real music, but a lot of info about where it is happening.'

    Can you expand on this a little bit please I'm not too sure what you mean.

    Ken:

    Lot to take in there haha.

    I think it may be a little bit difficult just now to do what your saying, like sync rights etc.
    Just now, should I be focusing on creating my website and getting traffic, THEN moving onto some of the more complex examples that you have given ?

    Later on I want to have on my website, exclusive information and news, I want to be the place where every trance/house fan comes for the latest news and tracks.
    Are you suggesting that sync rights and mechanical rights would be the way to go for this ?

    [[Edit - For those new to these forums, we have an abbreviations page - Clinton]]
    Last edited by Clinton; 12 March 2012 at 3:49 pm. Reason: link

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    I often come across a lot of this type of music that nobody else has heard of, and I want to change that.
    If you are first to the band, or are the first to find artists without representation or management, then you have the opportunity to not only
    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    Create a website which promotes trance, progressive house type of music
    but you'd be the direct recipient of income earned by management of the artists, overseeing the royalties and residuals, to
    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    generate income through advertisements etc, and what ever other ways I can
    such as licensing and administration of the IP rights you hold.

    You cannot
    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    Have videos of the artists songs
    without express permission (unless the owner of the rights has uploaded to someplace like YouTube, then you can embed video). The best method to pursue, to
    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    direct them to the artists website (or place of purchase).
    is for you to own and run that site, also, and have the ability to make tracks available for sale.

    It's fine to
    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    Create a website which promotes trance, progressive house type of music
    but you'll make more money starting out and have fewer legal difficulties, if you have IP rights that allow you to run (and own) not only your larger promotional site, but the artist's site also, for every band you find.

    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    I think it may be a little bit difficult just now to do what your saying, like sync rights etc.
    Just now, should I be focusing on creating my website and getting traffic, THEN moving onto some of the more complex examples that you have given ?
    The business I am suggesting is not to simply set up a site, but to do so in conjunction with your ability to
    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    come across a lot of this type of music that nobody else has heard of
    by starting the business to promote as a management company, not only under the information publishing and advertising model.

    That solves a lot of legal issues, as you can say what you want, and sell what you own the rights for, in any manner you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    Later on I want to have on my website, exclusive information and news, I want to be the place where every trance/house fan comes for the latest news and tracks.
    Are you suggesting that sync rights and mechanical rights would be the way to go for this ?
    You usually cannot obtain the rights to bands under management. If all you are doing is promoting artists already being promoted by labels, then others have heard of the music you are finding, and you have a completely different audience. At that point, your target demographic for a site that is
    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    the place where every trance/house fan comes for the latest news and tracks
    is for the entire genre. This changes the revenue model to monetisation from labels and management, not the artists. A focus on promoting new artists for existing management is nowhere near as profitable as promoting artists under your management.

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  6. #14
    Top Contributor grynge is a Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by earner View Post
    grynge:

    You mean as long as I dont upload them to youtube ?
    I would want the viewers to be able to listen to the music on my website, and then I would have a link to where they can legally buy the song and support the artist.
    If you found the clip on youtube that would be fine, but as FinanceGuy mentioned in the USA just linking to pirate material can get you into court, just ask PirateBay, TVLinks and hosts of others have found out. Maybe it would be worth while chasing up the artists to get their permission once you have it in writing then you will be ok. Smaller groups would more than likely love any exposure.
    And they thought me broken, that my tongue was coated lead, but I just couldn't make my words make sense to them, if you only listen with your ears ... I can't get in
    Non ducor, duco

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  8. #15
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    So Ken, am i right in saying that you are suggesting that I become a recording artist manager ? So my work would not only be online?
    I would scout for unsigned talent, sign them up and then use the internet to improve their reputation, sell their records, get them appearances at gigs, festivals etc, just basically try to make them superstars ?
    Sorry If I am not picking you up correctly.

    I am going to look into this myself, but would I need any specific qualifications or anything to do this ?

    'You cannot

    Originally Posted by earner
    Have videos of the artists songs




    Yeah, just to clear this up it would be a embedded youtube video of the track on my website, so that people could listen to the song before they decide to buy.
    But do you only mean a youtube video that the OWNER has put up themselves ? Or any youtube video of the track ?
    Last edited by earner; 13 March 2012 at 1:34 pm.

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    So Ken, am i right in saying that you are suggesting that I become a recording artist manager ? So my work would not only be online? I would scout for unsigned talent, sign them up and then use the internet to improve their reputation, sell their records, get them appearances at gigs, festivals etc, just basically try to make them superstars ? Sorry If I am not picking you up correctly. I am going to look into this myself, but would I need any specific qualifications or anything to do this ?
    Very few business owners have a business that is 100% online. Those new business-people that attempt online-only are entering a very competitive area of the internet, and this takes a good deal of experience to accomplish - experience that does exist here on EP. Everybody (and his brother) wants to work online from anywhere in the world. Yes, it can be done, but the competition to make money (from my perspective) requires much more effort than would be required if people are simply willing to work both online and off. When everyone is only interested in promoting and selling Amazon products as an affiliate, with no store and nothing more than a website filled with words, expecting that to be their sole source of income and a way to make money, they are entering the single, most competitive area of the internet that everybody wants starting out. Many tens of thousands of people buy those courses, but those teachers would be hard-pressed to find one in two hundred of their customers able to make a grand a month a year after starting, even working full time at the business. If you are doing this site as a labour of love, to write about things you enjoy, that makes the work easier.

    I often come across a lot of this type of music that nobody else has heard of, and I want to change that.
    I am taking you at your word. If 'Nobody else' has heard of music you are finding, then the single, most profitable, long-term business to start, is one that can control and capitalise on the ownership of IP (Intellectual Property). If this music already exists on the net, and is direct from the artists, then you are first to find it. If this music exists on the net from management, then you are not first. Depending upon which of these is the case, your monetisation model will change. For publication and promotion of artists already under management, you are entering a very competitive arena. Existing publishers of the highest caliber, such as newspapers and magazines, have a tough time with monetisation, yet n00bs come along and buy courses on how to get rich as an affiliate with a publishing model. If you publish, this means you are going to have to have one very unique USP, if you aren't actually finding new talent that nobody else has heard of.

    Yeah, just to clear this up it would be a embedded youtube video of the track on my website, so that people could listen to the song before they decide to buy. But do you only mean a youtube video that the OWNER has put up themselves ? Or any youtube video of the track ?
    You cannot post videos (or audio) of any song for which you do not own the synchronisation and mechanical rights. You can link to the video on another site. There are videos from YouTube I have attempted to use as product reviews (on store sites) that will not display. Some uploaders (owners) do not allow their content to be embedded in a site.

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  11. #17
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    Ok, so what you are saying I should do is get out and meet these new artists face to face? Go to small nightclubs, events, where they are likely to be playing and then speak with them? Is it those kind of actions you are suggesting I do ? So that they don't just see me as a website? Should I be interacting with these people face to face ?

    I would be really, really interested in that kind of thing. Would be a dream for me to do that! Getting out and searching myself for new talent, although a lot of this type of music is found on the internet, on certain websites where new artists can post up their songs and have people rate them, there will be up and coming artists playing at certain small venues.

    'I often come across a lot of this type of music that nobody else has heard of, and I want to change that.'

    Now that you have educated me about music management a little, I realize that I obviously was not the FIRST person to hear the songs, I had just searched it out a long time before anybody I knew and before it got played 5 times a day on the radio.
    However, If I do what I mentioned above, I CAN be the very first to hear, before anyone snaps up the young talent.

    Also, by Intellectual Property are you referring to the music ? I am not familiar with the term so had to google.

    But I have to say I like the direction you are pointing me in and have to thank you for educating me on this issue.
    I know realize that I would be fighting an almost losing battle trying to compete with other, bigger competitors, and that I should be focusing on finding the talent for myself and managing it!

    if you could just clear up that what I have said is correct, then I can move on to the next stage!

  12. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    Ok, so what you are saying I should do is get out and meet these new artists face to face? Go to small nightclubs, events, where they are likely to be playing and then speak with them? Is it those kind of actions you are suggesting I do ? So that they don't just see me as a website? Should I be interacting with these people face to face ?
    That's up to you. I know people that specialise in building political web sites, some people just build stores. It just sounded, from your interests, your best client for building sites were artists. When you share a passion with someone with a specialty business (and entertainment is a business), it's easy to enjoy becoming the best possible resource for them. If you can deal with that type of individual, and you learn to be the best at what you do, you get to help others succeed with their business (of sharing music with the world). IP control will make you the most money.

    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    Also, by Intellectual Property are you referring to the music ?
    IP is the legal document that provides the rights to use creative material, songs, video, trademarks, service marks, slogans, word marks, all of which would be unique to an artist. You would find an attorney and draw up legal documents giving you control, or they would and provide you power of attorney to administer rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by earner
    I should be focusing on finding the talent for myself and managing it!
    Structure your company to do both. Develop a name for promoting other managers, and build a reputation in the industry. The contacts in that industry, plus visiting venues to hear music, will give you opportunity to represent artists. You should have a business arranged to take advantage of opportunity. That's no different than members on EP who buy and sell websites. Once they have learned the business, they may choose to represent others who buy and sell websites. There's no reason why two harmonious objectives cannot be addressed in a single business plan. I was just letting you know where the money was for what you're considering

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  14. #19
    Top Contributor crabfoot is a Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by earner View Post
    crabfoot:


    B&M biz ?
    What are the main problems I would have to watch out for with my plan ?


    'I'd suggest a blog with an RSS feed to work towards a site which aims to be the place people go to find out "what's on" - nothing but links out to real music, but a lot of info about where it is happening.'


    Can you expand on this a little bit please I'm not too sure what you mean.
    I'll put this bluntly - you don't have a lot going for you except enthusiasm. To work towards your dream, you have to take small steps that lead in the direction of your dream.


    You need cred (business credibility) to go forward, and the easiest way to build that credibility is to put a site up that provides authoritative information on a subject - in this case, focusing on gigs and info about "breaking tracks". What used to be called a "fanzine".


    Build a good site with a reputation for having up to the minute info and you will find that, after a while, people send you info about gigs and new music - you don't need to go out and scrape the web for info. that's the point where you can go out and approach people for interviews and info - when you can put the stuff up on the website pronto, and they can see you doing what you promised.


    Then you can look at promoting gigs - find a suitable function room in a pub and take it over for the evening, bring in the DJs, publicise that through your site.
    That's when you can go in several directions - promoting artists, gigs, DJs, maybe even running your own night club.


    If you are working as an agent for people you have to be registered as an employment agency. If you are running that from home, you should tell the landlord before starting, if you live in rented accommodation.


    For events, the venue is supposed to be licensed for music and dancing, which is what makes "raves" illegal, even if you tell the plod that it's a private party.


    Whatever, doors don't open unless you have cred - you need to build some cred, and being able to say "I have a noteworthy website and promote a weekly club gig in Mancunium" tends to instil more confidence than saying "I'm really just a fan".
    Last edited by crabfoot; 13 March 2012 at 9:07 pm.

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  16. #20
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    Yeah first thing is first and that is building a reputation in the industry.
    I would do this through a website at first, just promoting new songs and posting news which trance/house fans would be interested in as you say.

    What I would do is visit each artists website and look for any new information that they have released.
    OR, Since a lot of new artists do not have websites, they have a lot of their work posted on soundcloud, and that is where I would find their new tracks and also be able to contact them.
    I would then gather all this information and post it on my site, (making sure I was staying legal that is, could easily use soundcloud to ask for permission if need be) making it ideal for people to come and see ALL the information, rather than them having to visit each artists site individually, I would be doing that for them.

    I know that sounds very basic, but that Is how I intend to start. From then on I could build and build my website up.
    Tell me what you think of that, please.

    'being able to say "I have a noteworthy website and promote a weekly club gig in Mancunium" tends to instil more confidence than saying "I'm really just a fan".'

    I completely agree. If I was an artist I would definitely be more willing to speak and share information with somebody who is known in the industry, rather than as you say, just a fan.


    'you don't have a lot going for you except enthusiasm.'

    Yeah, as the title says, I am brand new to this. But everyone has to start somewhere and this is something that I really want to do so I know that I will succeed.



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