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Thread: InternetTycoon Review - Kenny Goodman, Scam or Legit? InternetTycoon.com

  1. #31
    Administrator Kay is a Premium Member
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    That's really interesting, thanks for sharing. I despise these long sales pages but people keep telling me that they work. I just can't figure out why. Perhaps they work for stupid people so you get a chance to hammer the message into their thick heads.

    As for webinars - they have me running for the hills. A lot of videos are awful too. A pet hate of mine is when someone wants to force you to spend an hour listening to them waffle on. It's so much better when they provide a transcript (which I think you do, but I've not had a chance to see much of your course yet). When you get a transcript, at least you can scan read it and pause at the more interesting bits.

    But just like these long sales pages, videos often seem to be more popular than text. I wonder if it depends on the demographic. If "one" is targeting stupid people then give them a long page and a waffly video.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    That's really interesting, thanks for sharing. I despise these long sales pages but people keep telling me that they work. I just can't figure out why. Perhaps they work for stupid people so you get a chance to hammer the message into their thick heads.
    Keep talking like that and you'll have an Angry mob at your door

    I don't really know the answer - I'm so impatient I often refuse to use a web app or service I really need if they don't put the price on the website or make me sign up first to see it, so I'm probably not best qualified to say what works but it does.

    At first I thought it may have been a british thing, as in brits are more cynical and would tend to reject long sales pages and the like but this cant be true. Out of our initial batch of members I'd guess at about 60% being British (either that or they're just the ones most likely to post in the forum).

  4. #33
    Administrator Kay is a Premium Member
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    Yeah, but InternetTycoon isn't a representative sample of whether these things work or not. I can assure you that I didn't join up because of the sales page. I only joined because I know you. How many other people might have done the same? Maybe you could run a poll or survey on your forum to ask why people joined. Dunno if that would work. I can't imagine many people responding, "I joined because I liked your long sales letter".

    I also used to think that these long sales pages were for Americans and Brits wouldn't like them. Now I'm not so sure.
    British Expat - helping people to live and work abroad since the year 2000.

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  6. #34
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    Interesting fact - thank you...
    I think that Kay may have a point - though I might have phrased it slightly differently!

    There are a number of thoughts that go through my mind when seeing a page like that:
    - get to the point
    - you are trying to pull the wool over my eyes by disguising the reality in a lot of irrelevance-
    - if you can't sum up what you are about and give me the option to join in within a short timescale then I have no confidence about your content - I will assume it to be just as frustrating...

    I would suspect that the reason that many people fall for it is that the feel / psychology of the spiel is very up-beat / positive - therefore by the end of it - you don't quite know any more what it is offering but you feel good! therefore you want to know more - the spiel deliberately focuses on the up-beat positives - the tantilising possibilities - the goals of success - all pressing on the buttons of what the viewer wants... but deliberately doesn't tell you the precise details - therefore you need to sign up to find out more... it is a very clever marketing approach - but perhaps not ideal for members of EP who are perhaps a little more cynical than the norm?!

    I would suspect that you will get a different group of people signing up based on different sales pages - so it won't just be about the overall numbers, but perhaps the type of person...
    If the product is very good then a shorter - more detailed page will bring in the higher calibre / longer lasting customer - but numbers won't be as high... (less of a sales pitch may put off the less experienced)
    If the product is not very good then the longer - should bring in more (lower calibre) people - who won't stay as long...
    perhaps what we have here is something inbetween - hopefully good content - but a sales pitch aiming at the majority - the approach will put off some - but work for the many... best commercial approach?

    anyway - the bad is the style - doesn't suit me...
    but the good is the offer at 1 - very credible and kills off most arguments about trying to suck people in through deceit - especially as the individual controls the subs through their paypal account...

    will be interested to see how the course goes...

    Alasdair

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  8. #35
    Top Contributor Chabrenas is a Premium Member
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    I also used to think that these long sales pages were for Americans and Brits wouldn't like them. Now I'm not so sure.
    I've always wanted to believe that, Kay. But as you are finding out, it doesn't seem to be true.

    Justin, when it comes to the introductory video, although Kenny is using the same approach as the one I associate with almost all US sales pitches, I can listen. I'm not sure why - is it just because he's English, or is it because the ratio of polish vs content (equivalent to form vs function in industrial design) is better? Why is it that well-known people who are perfectly able to hold an audience in a live seminar end up creating such long, waffly sales videos? They are not dumb, so it must work - except with people like EP members,

    However, I have one technical criticism to make about the 'podcast': comments 'offstage', where full recording volume does not switch to the speaker, are often lost. It sounds as if you were sitting on opposite sides of a desk, using one mic and having the speaker physically grab it when it was his turn, so that unexpected comments come over in a mumble. However, this may be deliberate, to give a friendly, low pressure feel to the whole thing...

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  10. #36
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    It is an interesting fact. Everyone hates long sales pages, but history says they convert best of all.
    Probably because of how they are read. The headline, fast forward the price, catch the ps notes. If the price is ok, speed read the offer, then if all is ok, check the bullets:almost nobody reads it all, and that is at least part of why it jars.

    I wonder however.

    If the video had not been so much fluff: if you had shown the tool finding a site. The process of buy, renovate sell, as proof - then and only then present the offer as the parts of what you think average joe needs to undertake that process, i suspect that would convert best of all. Long on content,before the pitch.
    Last edited by mikeb; 8 April 2012 at 5:50 pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chabrenas View Post
    However, I have one technical criticism to make about the 'podcast': comments 'offstage', where full recording volume does not switch to the speaker, are often lost. It sounds as if you were sitting on opposite sides of a desk, using one mic and having the speaker physically grab it when it was his turn, so that unexpected comments come over in a mumble. However, this may be deliberate, to give a friendly, low pressure feel to the whole thing...
    I'd like to say it was deliberate but you're spot on. Ideally I should have bought my own mic over to Kenny's office where we recorded it, but didn't so we ended up sharing a mic (Our offices are only thirty minutes apart but going across Manchester at 1pm would have meant two hours of travelling!)

    Kenny's much better at the speaking part than I am - in fact, it's the part about the marketing process I hate doing most as I'm not too confident with the sound of my voice, but doing the whole process from start to finish was a really important part of the journey for us both - overall it was enjoyable.



    Quote Originally Posted by akirk View Post
    Interesting fact - thank you...
    I think that Kay may have a point - though I might have phrased it slightly differently!

    There are a number of thoughts that go through my mind when seeing a page like that:
    - get to the point
    - you are trying to pull the wool over my eyes by disguising the reality in a lot of irrelevance-
    - if you can't sum up what you are about and give me the option to join in within a short timescale then I have no confidence about your content - I will assume it to be just as frustrating...
    With most long sales pages those are my thoughts too, but there's two things at play here

    1) Our page isn't really a sales letter in the eight paragraphs of fluff sense. We're simply telling people about the stuff in the member area and because there's so much to tell, it takes a lot of words. We could have put it on another page (like with FlipFilter where I have 'tour') but it just didn't seem to work as well

    2) I always believe in listening to the numbers as well as other people out there getting feedback. There's some serious players who have in person (admittedly over drinks!) and publicly on blogs (http://mixergy.com/sethi-dream-job-interview/) who still swear by the long sales letter.

    Personally, I think the long sales page that isn't about product specifics is dying a slow death but there will be exceptions.

    I did a split test with another one of my sites about a month ago (http://www.dealnerd.co.uk). The site you see on the home page (you'll be redirected because Google Optimiser is still running) is winner of six different tests which included testing things like lightbox email captures (like Groupon / living social) and a long page with all the product features listed in a list, a little like Tumblr does on their homepage.

    I let it run for nearly 30,000 visitors and the short version that you see now outperformed the best for signups by at least 8%. What was pretty cool was to find out that the current version which has images of (random) faces above the facebook button with the message "Sign in and see which deals your friends recommend" outperformed an identical page without the faces by 5%.

    You cant assume anything in this game - you've just got to test your heart out and see what works for that specific scenario.

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  13. #38
    Administrator Kay is a Premium Member
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    Kenny's much better at the speaking part than I am - in fact, it's the part about the marketing process I hate doing most as I'm not too confident with the sound of my voice...
    No, no, no! Kenny's voice is fine, better than some, but you have an excellent voice. It's good enough for you to be a radio presenter. In 99 cases out of a 100, I would prefer to read a transcript of the lesson. You're the exception. In your case, I like listening to you while I'm doing something else. That doesn't mean I'm not paying attention! But I can do routine stuff and listen to you at the same time. Actually, I was listening to you just now when I spotted this. (Yes, I did put you on pause whilst I write this.) You have a lovely voice, so throw away that lack of self-confidence NOW!.

    I wasn't going to give feedback until I'd finished the course, but since I'm here, I might as well say how it's going.

    The presentation is very good. Both presenters do it well without faffing about taking an hour to say something that could be said in ten minutes. The videos are no longer than they need to be - no padding them out with a load of irrelevant waffle. In any case you can read a transcript of them if you prefer. My only criticism is that the written material needs a bit of professional proofreading. I spotted a few typos and mistakes. (I'm not touting for business because my company - not me! - offers that service. It's just something that's easy for me to spot as an editor of several sites.) BTW, thanks for the heads up on pubic hair trimmers.

    I wouldn't praise the content quite so highly. Every user will have different needs so it's hard to get the pitch right. The beginner level was very, very basic even for someone like me who's not a website flipper. Also, I didn't particularly appreciate a long video telling me about personal time management at the beginning. Yes, I know it's important but I joined your course to learn about making money and flipping websites. I don't want to be told how to stop my bad habits.

    I'm on the intermediate stuff now, and it's more interesting. The talk about RPU and benchmarking was useful but I've still not yet got to the stage where I'm learning anything new. However, I'm enjoying it and some of it is a good reminder of things to keep in mind when you're thinking of buying and selling domains and websites. I'll keep going with the trial.
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  15. #39
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    Thanks Kay,

    I appreciate the feedback.

    Our initial feedback was that there wasn't enough resources for beginners, hence the really basic stuff but I understand it isn't for everyone.

    There's plenty of content outside of the seven day plan that's far more in depth, but the idea of the mini course is simply to get beginners upto speed without giving them information overload. You may be better off skipping ahead to the more indepth stuff on the site itself.

    ... and yes, I really need a proof reader - I type faster than I think

  16. #40
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    And, Justin, I would like to extend my apologies as well. I have not changed my opinion on whether there is this opportunity you present, nor do I change my opinion on the selling tactics of your partner, but my opening post was unnecessarily hard on you personally. My opinion matches Alasdair post above. It's unfortunate that my wording wasn't closer to his choice of words.

    Over the last couple of years we have exchanged emails, spoken on the phone, had conversations on your blog and elsewhere. I like to think I've helped you in the past and that's because you always came across as a decent sort of bloke. I looked forward to your blog posts and though we disagreed on some issues, primarily related to Flippa and flipping, we got along well for the most part. I never had any doubt that the material for this course would be good. I was though (and am) 100% convinced that the people you are targeting stand to gain nothing from the course apart from some knowledge. It is my opinion that no matter what tools and advice you provide in this course, the state of the market now is such that most of those new entrants will acquire considerable knowledge but very little by way of solid earning websites. They certainly won't acquire, I feel, enough properties to justify the huge time investment to make it through all the great material you provide. What's more, I'm confident that the Flippa stats you possess demonstrate this. It was therefore very disappointing to me, personally, to see someone I considered a friend take a road I wouldn't have taken to make money off people who, in my opinion, won't derive the benefit they think they'll derive out of this course.

    If you agree with this snapshot, your entire operation is a bit exploitative. However, I have no reason to believe that you share my opinion. In fact, you probably don't. You probably believe that the majority of your students will end up with profitable websites at good prices as a result of your course. The claim about conning the gullible is therefore one I apologise for and take back.

    We have two new threads now on Long Sales Letters and on Negative Option (Forced Continuity). It would be great if talk about those two specific topics moved to those threads.
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