Wow, I think Clinton is really going out of his way Avid. In my opinion it is you and your "supporters" that have painted the ugliest picture of yourself here. What started as just another person complaining on the internet has been given wings by your fiery responses.
I disagree, if Avid has done nothing wrong (and I have no clue whether he has done anything or not as all we have are anonymous complaints on an Internet forum) then he is well within his rights to try to get this thread taken down as it potentially may impact his ability to make a living. This thread was appearing for his name in the SEs (I assume) before any of these litigation threats were made so his fiery responses and the such have not given this thread wings of any sort.Originally Posted by christopheravell
On the other hand, Clinton has a legal opinion that says that he doesn't have to take down the thread as well and it is his perogative to leave it up.
Put the shoes on the other feet Christopher, if someone was posting stuff about you on the Internet that wasn't true, and that impacted your livelihood, would you not do everything in your power to get that removed as well? I would.
It really depends. I certainly wouldn't like it but, no, I do not think I would have someone visit the forum with my IP address, create an account and defend me. This to me looks bad. I believe it would make things look worse for myself because it would appear as if I just was pretending to be someone else to defend myself. Heck I have people on my own site calling me a scammer, a loser, a nut...
Thank you for your offer but I respectfully decline. I would propose a counter offer which is to kindly follow the instructions of the pre-claim you received from my UK firm Davenport Lyons, and remove this thread entirely. Also remit to me the IP information of both Alexjn and now ADS1 as well. If you prefer that I go through the process of getting a court order first than I can appreciate that and will do so.
It has been commented that I have been over zealous in my responses. Only one comment here, the intent of this forum per the comments of its posters, is “to put me out of business”. It is stated in the commentary directly. Per the admission of the posters, these comments are intentionally injurious in their attempts to damage my professional reputation and disrupt my livelihood. It also worth adding, this effects the livelihoods of any person I may commission or hire directly or indirectly. That is not legal or acceptable. If I sound emphatic with my responses, I feel have good reason to be though you may disagree.
Per your comments Clinton, on the litigation that is pending, the pre-trial period expired just about a week ago. However, I have no doubt in the causes of action in the case. Please don’t think we have rethought our case. Your suit is on hold as my lawyers in the United States have subpoenas for IP information out to a previous blog (Wordpress) where Alexjn attempted to launch a defamation campaign. Other monikers have also been used by her and for the love of the pursuit of truth these are being investigated. When I have this and can prove nexus I will move forward in process with the UK suit. For general information, it is worth noting, however, that the blog was based around just two central points 1) that I was never really a graduate professor and had made this up (although 2 minutes of research would have proved otherwise i.e. calling the Gore Business School and asking, etc., see Utah Business Magazine article, http://www.allbusiness.com/north-ame.../870619-1.html) and 2) that I had a negative rating with the BBB. (Please note: the spurious and defamatory blog was taken down by Wordpress some months ago within a week or two of its initial posting).
The BBB has retracted their negative rating. (See http://www.bbb.org/utah/business-reviews/online-shopping-sites/two-rivers-in-salt-lake-city-ut-22170808). After reviewing the documentation, they have issued a “No Rating” and in a manner consistent with BBB procedures the listing should be removed altogether in a successive update. It seems this rating was the basis of the attacks and was used as an external source of evidence to corroborate that I was a “bad” person. I have to thank Alexjn for bringing this listing to my attention so I could be made aware of this and get the BBB the documentation they needed to get it rectified. That is one bit of good she has generated and I thank her.
As far as an earlier comment, my lawyers have no objection to my defending myself on this forum while it is up. In fact if there is any objection, it is in my telegraphing too much of my legal strategy and providing posters with warnings of my position (I suspect before they have a chance to provide even more material.) Please do not be mistaken, there are laws there are being broken here and the intent is spread derogatory opinions about being “sleazy and indecent” and “to put Avid out of business” so I will take appropriate action.
As far as other points, if I have violated a previous agreement with a buyer than it is well within your rights to come file a legal action. In fact I would encourage it. We have a legal system in place specifically to handle dispute resolution in a procedural manner. If you bought a site from me and are dissatisfied or feel that a contract or agreement was abrogated than I would encourage you to take advantage of this system. I am 100 percent confident I have never violated any previous agreement or contract and never sold anything I did not agree to sell and don’t do business that way. Moreover, I am also confident in the relationships I have cultivated with former clients and the experiences they have had with my sites. This forum keeps referencing “networks” of disgruntled buyers. I have two anonymous posters that have made a series of false and defamatory comments, that can easily be proven as such, that then disappeared into the cyber abyss. When asked to validate themselves they disappear. They have not listed their names, the sites they have acquired, or anything substantiating. Once again, please come out from the shadows and list the URL or your name so we can have an open dialogue.
What I do know concretely is that I have consortium of very happy buyers that communicate with each other, exchange retailing advice, conversion suggestions, etc. They also stay in contact for ongoing debriefings and strategy help from me. The first of these relationships goes back to the first site I ever worked on and sold to a buyer, Susan Berberik, with a site called pottytrainingsolutions.com.
As I have stated before, I do not have a magic wand, and do not have 100% predictability for every site I have developed. In cases where a site has underperformed for some reason, I am open first to additional help or work being performed on the site at my cost, a partial refund, or even the conveyance of additional sites on a complementary level based on the issues pertaining to the site. Honestly, I don’t know how many sellers make this kind of effort. One thing that I can guarantee is that if I see a buyer putting work and effort into their site I will continue to assist them and give them ongoing guidance at my cost. If there is a buyer who wants to push that work onto me, and then blame me for a site that isn’t making them as much money as they want, that is not fair and I am not open to that. I received the below letter from a buyer recently outlining his experiences which I think illustrates this philosphy:
------------------
I acquired the website AmericanFitness.net from Avid Amiri several years ago. I wanted to take a few moments to detail my experiences.
The company has grown substantially from the time I originally purchased the business. In addition, the rankings and traffic have continued to climb. The site is now one of the largest fitness webstores on the internet and holds top rankings for key terms like “fitness equipment” and “gym equipment”. These placements have only become more entrenched from the time I purchased the business.
Avid and his colleagues transitioned a strong growth platform that has maintained the integrity of its rankings . In addition, he allocated strong training and has offered ongoing support. With many sellers, while they may understand the operations of their website they have little knowledge of the web based aspects of their firms, notably obtaining search engine placements and maintaining them long term. While my rankings, have been strong I have used Avid resources for ongoing strategy discussions and site development
One of the additional benefits of working with Avid was the ability to troubleshoot and strategize with his people. This is an intellectual resource I would not have found with other sellers.
Avid is not about building turnkey businesses, these are strong growth platforms with traffic and rankings. It is up to the a buyer to work on the retail management aspects of these companies. I have worked on pricing, vendor relationships, customer service and other myriad aspects. I have structured a call center to assume incoming orders and have also developed an infrastructure for commercial and institutional sales that I manage directly. Avid provided me with the platform to achieve sales in excess of seven figures annually and I see ongoing additional growth as the trajectory for my business. Ron Thompson, Americanfitness.net
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There is one thing that needs to be cleared up. The role of Clinton as a moderator and the owner of this forum. As a moderator it is fine that his comments be measured and impartial. As the owner of the forum however when he republishes material that is defamatory he is as liable as the individual who posted it. This is an important distinction that needs to be made.
As a moderator, I appreciate Clintons remarks but have to admit I don’t understand the impartiality and fairness of a moderator who says that he doesn’t want members to overuse my name because it has an effect on search engine ranking when in the next sentence he actually provide instructions on how to develop external links through social media sources, etc. in order to improve the rankings for search engine purposes.
Also, Clinton as a preview of upcoming correspondence from my UK attorney allow me to give you an excerpt:
Your position is that correspondence should be addressed to Domain Registrations Ltd (the “company) as you are not responsible or liable for material published on http://experienced-people.net (the “website”). Notwithstanding that you are the director of the company, this letter (and previous ones) are addressed to you in your capacity as the editor/moderator of the website, as you appear to have editorial responsibility for its content. We refer, for example, to your post dated 16 June 2010 at 4:40am on the thread entitled ‘Avid Amiri from Internet Enterprises’ where you say ‘I've just deleted a post above for violating rule 3’. Indeed you go on to state you ‘normally delete a few such posts every week.’ You have therefore exerted direct editorial control as defined in section 1(2) Defamation Act 1996 and are thus personally liable for material published on the website.
(continued on next post)
Clinton, you have mentioned to the hosting company as well as to me a few weeks ago, that you plan on hiring a lawyer. Have you done so yet? If not, as one person to another, I would strongly recommend that you do so. I think it would be helpful for you to have some legal guidance at this stage. As noted, I have attempted to resolve and settle this in every manner possible and you have decided to move in a different direction. I can respect your position but feel like you could benefit some legal assistance.
I have also had a chance to review many other threads on this forum and have to question the impartiality as well as knowledge base that is being applied for some of thee. Here is just one: http://experienced-people.net/forums/showthread.php/913-Very-Expensive-Brokers-have-a-shed?p=6109
I don’t know the owner of this shed site and have no relationship to him at all but checked his rankings and he is in the top 3 for some major keys terms in his market. You encourage a poster to “sue the pants off him (the seller)” because you claim it was misvalued. The site generates 6k per month net profit but you say the multiple is 150 x? Clinton, the math here is wrong. At 6k per month, the site makes about 60-70k per year (yes, I checked with the listing itself and the information for the site) so how do you come up with the 150x? With all due respect a monthly versus annualized calculation is an easy one to make especially before telling someone asking about a site that they should buy it and then start suing peoples pants off. Also, do you know the vast majority of listings on bizbuysell back out any cost for owners time in management. Right or wrong, in smaller sites sales, it is usually not standard practice. Are all of these site doing it incorrectly? I am asking. I am not a guru of valuations but I think these are pretty basic issues.
Clinton, I am happy to detail my ecommerce experience and credentials. I have done consulting work for some of the largest ecommerce companies in the US like Pets United (Dog.com, Fish.com, Bird.com, et al), Garden.com, sold sites to Hayneedle.com, etc. I have also built some of the largest webstores online which Ive referenced before. On an academic level I have an MBA from Cornell and taught ecommerce and entrepreneurship on a graduate level for a number of years. How about you? With all due respect, what is your background, what are your credentials, what deals have you done, who have you consulted for, what sites other than this one have you built or sold? I found a computer store that you own called http://www.bestpricecomputers.ltd.uk/ but it doesn’t actually seem to sell anything. It states that as its intent but all I see are ads. I don’t want to be critical of your work and perhaps you have built some amazing sites but so far I cant find anything. As for me, I would really like to know more about your background and credentials for evaluating sites for my own information. I think this is a fair request for all your members, not just me.
In sum, the intent of this forum per the comments of its posters, is “to put me out of business”. That is not legal or acceptable. If I sound emphatic with my responses, I have good reason to be.I understand that the legal process will take time but I am a strict votary of this process and am confident in its measured efficiency. My name is the only name I have I will do everything within the law to preserve it from the kind of derisive and patently untrue remarks detailed here. As I stated before, I will pursue all legal means to secure IP information and to prosecute in a manner consistent with the law.
Avid, I have no desire to get dragged into your plan to take legal action against every person on the Internet who had a negative thought about you, but since I had interacted with you before, I felt like a response to your last post was justified.
The purpose of this forum (at least based on my experience) is not to put you out of business. The vast majority of the posts on this forum have nothing to do with you, and I don't think most of the members here spend any time thinking about you or your business unless this thread gets dredged up again. I know I don't. I don't even think the purpose of this thread is to put you out of business, though some of the posters in this thread would probably be pleased if that happened, if their claims about you are any indication.
In your first post in this thread, you made some ludicrous assertions, which I believe I quickly proved to be false. You followed up by quickly backing away from your generous cash offer, having people post in your defense from the same IP address as you, and with legal threats that seem unfounded based on my (limited) knowledge of how the law has been applied to forums in the past, rather than actually providing evidence that you provide value to your customers or offering any information about how your business model works. If you had responded positively and showed why these people were off their rocker instead of going on the attack, you probably would have a few people happy to refer potential customers your way instead of potential enemies.
I don't know if you have hundreds of satisfied customers or not, or if you provide a great service for the rather high price that you seem to charge for your sites because you have failed to provide any real information about your track record, but I think that your response is ridiculously over the top. I also think your primary concern is that your potential customers will become more informed about the alternatives to giving you over $50,000 for their first online business, not that you think you are being slandered, defamed, and so on. No matter what happens with this specific thread, if legal action is brought against this site, I imagine it will be very closely watched by the online business community, it will be impossible for you to track down all of the blog posts, forum threads, and comments about the trial, and it won't present you in a favorable light even if you win the trial.
Last edited by benitez17; June 23rd, 2010 at 10:19 PM.
I have tried to last 2 paragraphs of my last post but the system will not allow me to.
At any rate, perhaps this will go through, Benetiz I appreciate your comments. You are certainly entitled to your opinion re all of this. Please note, if future blogs, forum, etc. are in violation of the law the same procedure will be followed.
EXACTLY -- perfectly expressed Benitez.
I hope that they are posted at some point so we can see the rest of your thoughts. I think we all understand that there are two sides to every story, but your critics have provided compelling arguments while you have provided what could easily be seen as a dummy account shilling for you along with legal threats, so it's hard to see things from your perspective.
Do you really think you are going to chase down every single blog post that could be perceived as offering an opinion that does not paint you in a favorable light? I think you are really underestimating the time and expense that it would take to do so if you were to take this to trial, and the damage that those efforts would do to your business and personal reputation. Not only would the case be of interest to this community, but it would also attract the attention of free speech activists, other media companies, and other groups way more influential than anyone here.
For example, the story of your attempt to censor this forum is made for a front page story on Slashdot and Digg, where it could easily whip up a negative backlash against you, your business, and any websites you are associated with that would be much worse than the contents of this thread.
Avid, you mean " if I BELIEVE future blogs, forum, etc. are in violation of the law the same procedure will be followed"... I do believe your statements that this forum is in violation of the law has yet to be backed by the courts.
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