Getmedics.com

[christopheravell]

The poor guy? He is trying to rip people off and trick Flippa into accepting his listings.

I am a little curious about what circumstances led him to his current situation, but I don't really feel sorry for him. If he wasn't providing the same false stats over and over again in an attempt to scam potential buyers, he wouldn't have a problem.

I do feel badly for him. I have run into very few "scammers" who do so for sport.

Sure, there are professional ripoff-artists... But most do so out of desperation. This, of course, doesn't make it right - indeed I reported this guy and listing to Flippa Support - however, this is a real person with bills to pay and (possibly) a family to support. We don't know what he may be facing in his life. Again, that doesn't justify the behavior, but I for one have compromised my morals/ethics in the past. Very few of us are perfect... As I said in another post, some of us may have download a copyrighted song or piece of software, some of us may have fudged some numbers, some of us may have been unfaithful, some of us may have... Chances are that most of us wouldn't be proud of ourselves in our weakest moments.

While I sincerely believe I have never "scammed" anyone, I certainly have been responsible for hurting people at times throughout my life and (as I said) am definately guilty of not always living up to my ethical/moral standard.

So, although I very much am into "busting scammers" I always try and remember that their is a real person there -- flawed just like you and I. I always make the same offer to anyone I perceive as a scammer "if you are interested in making an honest living online, contact me and I will help".

Ok, enough of my rant! I am glad his auction got cancelled and I hope he can turn things around.

[benitez17]

I do feel badly for him. I have run into very few "scammers" who do so for sport.

Sure, there are professional ripoff-artists... But most do so out of desperation. This, of course, doesn't make it right - indeed I reported this guy and listing to Flippa Support - however, this is a real person with bills to pay and (possibly) a family to support. We don't know what he may be facing in his life. Again, that doesn't justify the behavior, but I for one have compromised my morals/ethics in the past. Very few of us are perfect... As I said in another post, some of us may have download a copyrighted song or piece of software, some of us may have fudged some numbers, some of us may have been unfaithful, some of us may have... Chances are that most of us wouldn't be proud of ourselves in our weakest moments.

While I sincerely believe I have never "scammed" anyone, I certainly have been responsible for hurting people at times throughout my life and (as I said) am definately guilty of not always living up to my ethical/moral standard.

So, although I very much am into "busting scammers" I always try and remember that their is a real person there -- flawed just like you and I. I always make the same offer to anyone I perceive as a scammer "if you are interested in making an honest living online, contact me and I will help".

Ok, enough of my rant! I am glad his auction got cancelled and I hope he can turn things around.

Interesting. I don't expect people to be perfect, but he has attempted to pull the same scam over and over, he has been told that it is wrong each time, and he keeps trying (and not doing a very good job of masking his identity). There is a big difference between availing yourself of some content that has been made available to you for free (not that I condone that either) and actively trying to steal someone else's hard earned money. There is also a big difference between being a flawed individual (as we all are) and a criminal.

He's a scam artist who knows what he is doing is wrong and would hurt someone else if he were successful, but he doesn't care. He's no different than a professional thief, other than the fact that he is doing a very poor job with his attempts to con people.

[christopheravell]

Interesting. I don't expect people to be perfect, but he has attempted to pull the same scam over and over, he has been told that it is wrong each time, and he keeps trying (and not doing a very good job of masking his identity). There is a big difference between availing yourself of some content that has been made available to you for free (not that I condone that either) and actively trying to steal someone else's hard earned money. There is also a big difference between being a flawed individual (as we all are) and a criminal.

He's a scam artist who knows what he is doing is wrong and would hurt someone else if he were successful, but he doesn't care. He's no different than a professional thief, other than the fact that he is doing a very poor job with his attempts to con people.

I have only seen the two examples on Flippa, so I didn't know he was attempting to scam people over and over. I don't think there is as huge a difference as you might think... As a software developer I have had my software pirated and I incidentally ran into someone who happened to be using my software which he downloaded for free from a file sharing site. It sure felt like he had stolen money right from my pocket. It sure FELT like a crime against me. But, he was able to justify it, rationalize it, and excuse it... When it serves our purpose we all can have tendencies to do so.

A scam artist? Perhaps... I don't know exactly what defines that but either way, I am not sure. The only thing I am sure of is that he is an imperfect human being - who should not be scamming people. Therefore if he can change his ways, I for one am certainly willing to forgive him (not that he has wronged me personally). It really boils down to perspective.

I have a friend who recently divorced his wife -- he wanted to move on to greener (younger) pasture. Yet I was there at the wedding when he said "for richer, for poorer, for better, or for worse" and vowed to stay with her forever. He has stolen 6 YEARS of her LIFE. Just like a *scammer* he misrepresented the facts, made false promises, cheated, lied, etc... I think little argument needs to be be made that what he "stole" from her is worth much more than a few thousand dollars. Yes, she agreed to marry him (much as the sucker agrees to buy from the scammer) but she was not presented with all the facts, the true facts... She was scammed. And, not out of money, but out of years of her life - OUCH! I'd rather waste $10,000,000 than 6 years of my life!

But, in the case of my friend, his "scamming" represented greater issues in his life. He too was (is) in pain, struggling, and trying to better himself. He just wasn't doing a very good job!

So, I think if we all hold ourselves accountable there is probably some area of our lives where we are all "scammers". I said before I have not scammed anyone, but that is in the conventional sense.

So, where we should try and stop the "scammers" (NOT allow them to steal from others) we should also provide them with grace, forgiveness, and offer our support if they're willing to change.

[Clinton]

Are they willing to change though? If they feel justified, even smug, they're not open to any "support" from you or anyone else.

There was someone who defended himself in a different thread here because he felt that he wasn't scamming people. In fact, he felt so strongly that he should be allowed to continue his activity without any aspersions being cast on his character that he has retained an attorney who has served me notice of legal action because his "good name" has been "damaged" on these forums.

Some of them don't want to discuss the ethics of their actions. Some are just your average self-serving low-life who's happy to exploit the weak and vulnerable and doesn't want his game scuppered.

[christopheravell]

Are they willing to change though? If they feel justified, even smug, they're not open to any "support" from you or anyone else.

There was someone who defended himself in a different thread here because he felt that he wasn't scamming people. In fact, he felt so strongly that he should be allowed to continue his activity without any aspersions being cast on his character that he has retained an attorney who has served me notice of legal action because his "good name" has been "damaged" on these forums.

Some of them don't want to discuss the ethics of their actions. Some are just your average self-serving low-life who's happy to exploit the weak and vulnerable and doesn't want his game scuppered.

Perhaps, as you said, he felt he wasn't scamming people. MOST OF US do not want to face our weaknesses. If someone has a big issue with me, sometimes (I must admit) my first reaction is to get defensive and angry. And, if the person accusing me is doing it in an antagonistic (not constructive) way I am even less likely to come around quickly.

Average self-serving lowlife? OUCH! I guess that is me. As much as I try, and I do work hard at it, I find I can be a very selfish person. I like things done my way, on my schedule, and for my benefit. Yes, I try not to hurt others, but in the end I often find I am self-serving. Most people who get to know me seem to think I am a great person, not a scammer, liar, cheat, or con. But, I still -- if being honest -- fall into the self-serving category. Sure, my mission is all about helping others... Because it makes ME feel good and accomplished. I do like the praise I get from someone I have helped... ME ME ME!

I really think there are VERY VERY few who say "I want to go out and screw someone over today". I think most "scammers" say "I need to make myself money and this is all I know how to do". Yes, they then justify it and excuse it. Much like me when I do something I know I probably shouldn't. Justify and excuse.

I am not saying this guy is not guilty. I am just saying that we ALL are guilty of something or another, so let's not start casing stones. Let's try and stop the problem (don't LET them scam) and them help them in the right direction. Sure, he may not be WILLING to change. But, what is more likely to help soften his/her heart to change... Saying "Gotcha! Stop it you loser scammer, I am going to bust you till you change - scumbag!" or saying "Look, this is not right, I will not let you scam people. Please let me help you learn to make an honest living so you can survive without having to cause harm to others".

I make this mistake all the time. Often my rhetoric against a "scammer" is too harsh and I transform from "trying to reform" to "just trying to expose and destroy".

[benitez17]

He's been caught red handed 4 times this week I believe, and hooperman seemed to know him by name before the thread was started here, so it's not like he made some honest (or not so honest) mistake once.

I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time, but intentionally providing false information about an item for sale is fraud, and should be treated as such. This person has been banned repeatedly from Flippa and seems to have no interest in changing his ways, so I don't see why he deserves to be coddled and supported in his future endeavors.

[christopheravell]

He's been caught red handed 4 times this week I believe, and hooperman seemed to know him by name before the thread was started here, so it's not like he made some honest (or not so honest) mistake once.

I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time, but intentionally providing false information about an item for sale is fraud, and should be treated as such. This person has been banned repeatedly from Flippa and seems to have no interest in changing his ways, so I don't see why he deserves to be coddled and supported in his future endeavors.

Hey, I understand your opinion. Remember, I REPORTED THIS GUY TO FLIPPA (not saying I was the only one). I am just saying that we have stopped at least his latest attempt and should allow him the chance to redeem himself. Man, the number of times I have messed-up on the same issue I am sure the number exceeds... Dunno, cannot count that high. The issues I struggle with, I struggle with... I cannot tell you how many times I have made the "commitment" to myself and to others to stop procrastinating... FAIL!

I guess the bottom line is that I am much more flawed then some others on this forum, which is easy for me to believe, so I tend to extend more grace. I know that I mess up again and again, so I can only pass so much judgment.

[tke71709]

I cannot tell you how many times I have made the "commitment" to myself and to others to stop procrastinating... FAIL!

If procrastinating were a sin I would be hell 40 times over.

My "job" is a government IT consultant (writing mostly, so business requirements, user manuals, training guides, etc...). With the budget freeze at the start of this new fiscal year (April 1) my contract was not renewed and I still haven't found anything at the moment. When I was first off I said to myself that I was going to dedicate myself 3-4 hours a day to launching some new sites, it's a month later and all I've done is hire a writer to write ten articles for a site that's been on the back burner for a while. Mind you I have done other things around the house but most of days have been puttered away doing nothing productive.

Anyway back on topic, procrastinating is one thing, intentionally misleading people to make a few bucks is another thing entirely.

[christopheravell]

If procrastinating were a sin I would be hell 40 times over.

My "job" is a government IT consultant (writing mostly, so business requirements, user manuals, training guides, etc...). With the budget freeze at the start of this new fiscal year (April 1) my contract was not renewed and I still haven't found anything at the moment. When I was first off I said to myself that I was going to dedicate myself 3-4 hours a day to launching some new sites, it's a month later and all I've done is hire a writer to write ten articles for a site that's been on the back burner for a while. Mind you I have done other things around the house but most of days have been puttered away doing nothing productive.

Anyway back on topic, procrastinating is one thing, intentionally misleading people to make a few bucks is another thing entirely.

I'm am glad we dwell in the kingdom of impressive displays of procrastination together. I tell you, it sure is a hard habit to break. I could write a huge article about it... But I will get to that later. ;-)

[tke71709]

That's why I really enjoy working with others (partners) as I'll never procrastinate if someone else is counting on me.