Getmedics.com

[christopheravell]

I have talked to Kevin and I believe we have someone who was scamming people and is ready to reform. For those of you who don't know -- this is what I try and do. Call out scammers and then help them to confess and reform their ways. I am weird, I know. He has agreed to let me publish my conversations with him. This way, we can see he has confessed and offer him forgiveness, and hold him accountable to the change he has promised.

*Although I will not edit any of what was said, I will only list the important aspects to avoid a 20-page post*

First after becoming a "thorn in Kevin's side" he submitted an email to me titled "ok! I surrender!" and we began the process of change. I informed Kevin that if he was going to work with me on moving forward he was going to need to be completely honest. Here is the email I got from him about his situation (again, parts removed for length sake) -- I asked why he was banned and what he may have done "wrong".

Your account was banned as we detected duplicate accounts of which were bidding against, and winning, your own auctions, as well as Success Fees for these listings remaining unpaid.

yes, it was true. I did that. I saw my auction not grow and i tryed to do that.

So Kevin was first banned from Flippa for bidding on his own auctions, which he now admits to doing. I had also asked Kevin to be honest about his sites (for sales) and their stats...

My idea is to create sites that can be great from the marketing and graohic point of view and well done. My scripts are really and honestly well done and tested. I started working on them in 2007.

The only thing it's not completely true is that they mostly not have all user i promised or revenues i promised too. But we are speaking of sites that users pay not more then 800/1000$ each. They however cannot have a site like them with very nice domains (for example freelanceadvocate.com, great domain, also getmedics is good).

...

Most of users are from a my DB and i have added. I have a large DB of more then 20.000 freelancers due to my past websites. All users are real but in reality they not had subscribed my sites.

So, Kevin admits (and later fully admits) that the users, and thus the activity, on his sites for sale are not real. They may be "real people" but they are not real subscribers to the sites being sold. Also, the sales data is untrue. These sites are not making the money that was claimed.

[christopheravell]

Kevin and I then struck up a conversation via IM and I will post some of that here as well...

Kevin: This is my hobby!
Kevin: So it s why i was really worried about what flippa do to me
Kevin: I have fault
Kevin: But not a criminal!!!!
Kevin: And not scam sites
Kevin: For example freelanceadvocate.com is a good site with great potentialities
Chris: Well, you got banned from Flippa for breaking their rules and not paying their fees. This would happen regardless of the site being sold.
Kevin: Ok, i know
Kevin: But how can recover my trustness?
Kevin: I m fully avalaible to pay their fees and to say : please pardon me. I want only sell my sites
Chris:Contact flippa, be honest with them about what you did and let them know it will not happen again, and pay the fees
Kevin: i ll try. But they are australian and i think that they are quite not so flexible
Kevin: I ll do it and i make you know
Chris: well, they may be less inclined because you then opened new accounts -- looks like you were banned three times.
Kevin: It s not nice when someone write me in comments that i sell scams. For example now i cannot sell getmedics and translatorsbay while i think they are really good sites
Kevin: Yes
Kevin: Probably more them 3
Kevin: It s not easy
Chris: but thinking they are good sites is one thing, making up false stats / data is another.
Chris: That is where an honest site listing becomes a scam.
Kevin: It s true
Kevin: But for 1000 dollars i thinked it s not a crime
Kevin: I know
Kevin: I m in fault
Kevin: I know it s not correct
Chris: The listings were not honest... That is the bottom line. So, now you have confessed and now you can move forward with honesty and achieve success with these.
Kevin: But it s a way to make users see my sites
Kevin: I ll try
Kevin: First of all
Kevin: I ll try to sell my sites
Kevin: But i ll sell like virgin sites
Kevin: Without any users
Kevin: And no stats
Chris: But, the reality is, these sites will probably not sell for much, if at all, with their *virgin* stats.
Kevin: I promised
Chris: but, that is where you stand.
Chris: unfortunately good script and good domain do not equal great sale.
Kevin: But why not? I see very ugly and not well done sites sold for more while i offer good domains and a powerful script for few dollars
Kevin: Yes
Kevin: It s true!!
Chris: however, there are many sellers who do well.
Kevin: I agree with you
Chris: Yes, you have a legitimate problem -- that is, others may sell well because they use unethical (dishonest) means. Therefore the temptation is to join them...
Kevin: I ll try to go on and sell sites trying to sell a dream
Kevin: Yes
Kevin: It a temptation
Chris: What you need to sell is a VISION
Chris: If you can make people see what you see as the potential for a site they will buy it.
Kevin: I see so many scams sites on flippa that i said me
Kevin: Why i can do the same although i sell good sites?
Kevin: Yes
Kevin: It s marketing!
Chris: marketing is not false promises... That is scamming.
Chris: Marketing is selling your vision (when it comes to Flippa)
Kevin: You cannot understand how much i suffered for my latest banned
Kevin: Although i recognize that it is my fault and my responsability
Chris: Why, are you having trouble making ends meet (paying bills, surviving, etc)?
Kevin: No
Kevin: I have a good life standad
Chris: ok, so then there is no urgency
Kevin: Standard
Kevin: Yes
Chris: I think the first step is to contact Flippa and apologize and come 100% clean -- let them know your accounts, let them know you only wish to use ONE account, pay your bill.
Kevin: Yes i ll do it!!!
Kevin: Great
Kevin: Where in us?
Chris: I will also, with your permission I will put this (our conversations) on a forum where some of the Flippa staff reside. This will show people that you are sincere in changing your course of action and you will get a much better response. Ok?
Kevin: Ok and thanks!!
Chris: no problem. We all make mistakes, and people online are ready to proclaim you a scammer for yours. However, I think that when people see your willingness to confess and change they will be ready to give you another chance and to help you along the way.
Kevin: Good! I ll follow this line for the future
Kevin: I dont like being banned as a criminal
Kevin: I do mistakes
Kevin: It s correct
Kevin: But i want to be on the right line
Chris: Great. If others see your change and see your new course they will SUPPORT YOU instead of VILIFY YOU.
Chris: Let me know how it goes on Flippa. If needed (if they will not lift the ban) I will see if there is anything else I can do to assist in the process. Remember, when talking to them do NOT make excuses, take full responsibilty and make it clear it will not happen again. Let them know that your ethical standard will be your #1 concern when listing sites on Flippa.

Again, some has been removed but nothing of any importance. So, Kevin has promised to change and is asking for forgiveness. When a scammer changes his/her ways we should try and support their effort with forgiveness and assistance. We should also keep an eye on them and hold them accountable to their promise of change. When I get more form Kevin I will post it here so we can keep an eye on him.

I have helped dozens and dozens of scammers change their hearts over the years, lets see if Kevin can join them in reformation. But I do hope, on this forum, we can extend him some grace. It is hard to publicly confess your wrong-doings, it is something we all don't often do. So, let's try and give Kevin (another) chance.

Kevin, good luck! We will be watching (and helping)!

[benitez17]

When a scammer changes his/her ways we should try and support their effort with forgiveness and assistance. We should also keep an eye on them and hold them accountable to their promise of change. When I get more form Kevin I will post it here so we can keep an eye on him.

I have helped dozens and dozens of scammers change their hearts over the years, lets see if Kevin can join them in reformation. But I do hope, on this forum, we can extend him some grace. It is hard to publicly confess your wrong-doings, it is something we all don't often do. So, let's try and give Kevin (another) chance.

Kevin, good luck! We will be watching (and helping)!

Obviously you are free to spend your time as you like, but I have many things I would rather do than spend time reforming a con artist, especially since he seemed to be doing it for fun and profit, and not because he was having trouble feeding his family as you had hoped.

I'll reserve judgment on his new desire to do business honestly, but I would be very careful if I was considering working with someone and uncovered a track record like his, no matter how willing he seemed to be to change his ways, and I don't think there is any circumstance where I would buy a site from him.

It will be interesting to see if Flippa reinstates any of his accounts. If I were them, I wouldn't do it. He can still sell his sites on DP or your soon to be released marketplace, and they have enough problems with people shill bidding, hyping up auctions, and providing false information without letting the few people who they actually caught back into the system.

[Clinton]

Chris, I admire your persistence in helping people, but "Kevin" didn't come here voluntarily and confess. And, sorry, but I don't buy his change of heart/new leaf nonsense.

He sounds Indian and, call it a culture thing, but the conversation doesn't come across to me, an Indian, as one in which he has seen the light and learnt to distinguish between scam and marketing. Kudos to you for your efforts, shame on me for my cynicism, and may you eventually succeed in your efforts.

[christopheravell]

Chris, I admire your persistence in helping people, but "Kevin" didn't come here voluntarily and confess. And, sorry, but I don't buy his change of heart/new leaf nonsense.

He sounds Indian and, call it a culture thing, but the conversation doesn't come across to me, an Indian, as one in which he has seen the light and learnt to distinguish between scam and marketing. Kudos to you for your efforts, shame on me for my cynicism, and may you eventually succeed in your efforts.

Nonsense... OUCH!

Well, time will tell. But he did agree to have his confession posted on the forum. I thought it was best I do it vs. have him come out because my experience has taught me that he may come to a forum and have stones hurled at him -- which will make him feel more justified, vilified, and can tend to impede any chance at redemption. But, look at it this way... It will definitely be harder for him to scam anyone else when I have him ADMITTING that he created fake user accounts, fake sales data, etc. I have it written from "the horses mouth". But, I am optimistic he will change given the opportunity.

[christopheravell]

Grace and forgiveness are hard to come by online! :-)

[benitez17]

Grace and forgiveness are hard to come by online! :-)

Forgiveness is one thing, accepting the words of a complete stranger at face value when they have a spotty track record and offering them all the free assistance they need to turn themselves around is another.

[christopheravell]

Forgiveness is one thing, accepting the words of a complete stranger at face value when they have a spotty track record and offering them all the free assistance they need to turn themselves around is another.

This is why his confession is publicly posted, so he can be held accountable. He has admitted to "scamming" and has promised to change his ways. We will see.

[benitez17]

He's back!

http://flippa.com/auctions/99015

Christopher, have you reformed this scammer, or is he up to his usual tricks? Since the BIN is set at less than 6 weeks profit, I suspect that this is a scam.

[benitez17]

And here's another listing from this guy: http://flippa.com/auctions/100425/Sc...s--Low-Reserve

Christohper, I assume he has fallen off the wagon again (and so do a number of potential buyers if you read the comments), but I really would like to know if you are still in touch with this person.