Hi from the South Coast

[DaveMurphy]

Hi folks,

I'm Dave and I found these forums while doing some research on monetising websites - the good old "make money online" search phrase Looks like a great place to get advice and chew the fat with other people trying to build online income while avoiding the "gurus". I live on the south coast of england with my girlfriend of 8 years and our two children ( 3 and 2 )

I'm a game programmer by trade but had to give it up due to stress related ill health - too much crunching to meet stupid deadlines put me in hospital for a while & I was put on incapacity benefit which has been both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand it's given me an opportunity to get back to writing code for the sheer joy of it and spend some time interacting with amateur game programmers. On the other it's difficult to see how to move from benefit dependence to creating an income doing the things I really like to do - the whole idea of going back to a situation where my time is dictated by someone else's business goals fills me with dread.

I've been working with GPL software related to game programming and managed to accidentally build a well respected and popular brand in that area. My main website brings in around 3 or 400 visitors a day but I really haven't done much in the way of monetisation - most of the income there comes from donations and kachingle with the odd affiliate sale when I feel comfortable promoting something. I'd like to do more with the affiliate side and perhaps set up a related web store with drop shipped products but I worry quite a lot about alienating the users I interact with on a daily basis in the site forum and related IRC channels. I have a personal blog where I write about programming and technology I find interesting but that's been sadly neglected for a year or so - that still brings in 30 or 40 visitors a day so I should probably get back to blogging more often. Unfortunately I'm my own worst critic and I have several posts still sitting in drafts because I wasn't that happy with how they were going.

Like many others I found the MMO Guru niche and spent some time around that - I did a little website programming for some interesting characters ( setting up wordpress with forum integration and customising of traffic exchange scripts) but after a while I just felt like I needed a shower after talking to some of them about their "business" model. The whole thing seems really incestuous and based around an artificial marketplace that really adds no value to the world.

My basic plan now is to look at revenue generation with the websites I have now and hopefully move through "permitted work" on to working tax credit and eventually build things up to the point where I'm no longer on benefits. Ideally I'd like the income side to be relatively passive so I can concentrate on things I find interesting without stressing too much about numbers and/or deadlines - does anyone here have much experience with dropshipping or fulfilment services?

I currently have 22 domains, some of which have been developed, others I had some ideas for but never really found the motivation to put content on. A couple I've thought about trying to build some traffic for and eventually selling them on but kind of lost the motivation when google killed my adsense account. I think their click fraud monitor may have been triggered by some website visitors trying to be "helpful" by clicking a bunch of ads ( a couple of people who use my software admitted to exactly that) but I didn't get anywhere with the appeal and the income it was bringing in at the time wasn't really worth the hassle of trying to break through the automated responses. Bizarrely I've been invited to sign up for adsense recently through webmaster tools/google analytics but I really don't know if it's worth trying again since they say you get banned for life & I really don't want to suffer the disappointment of being banned again when it comes time to pay out. It was several years ago and I've since moved house a couple of times but I'm pretty sure they could identify me without too much sweat.

This intro is getting a bit long though so I'll stop for now, looking forward to interacting here and hopefully I can manage to make a contribution.

Dave

[sitemaster]

Hey Dave! Great intro post and welcome to Experienced People.
In what area do you have experience in game programming? Have you thought about trying something in the mobile space? Perhaps a free game that is ad supported or offers in app purchases.

[crabfoot]

Never having been banned by Adsense I'm repeating second-hand info - but I've been told by a lot of people that all you need to get another Adsense account is a different email, although a different address and bank details must also be a help.

[KenW3]

does anyone here have much experience with dropshipping or fulfilment services?

Welcome to Experienced-People.net! There have been several good discussions on drop shipping here on EP A couple you could review are:

Insights into Drop Shipping for Ecommerce Companies and Doing dropshipping in the UK and/or USA

[Clinton]

Hi Dave, welcome to the forums. That was a great intro

There are many ways to get back into Adsense. For one, you can setup a Ltd company and the company would be entitled to its own account. Another way would be to buy a site that comes with an Adsense account and change the payment destination to your own bank account.

Ideally I'd like the income side to be relatively passive so I can concentrate on things I find interesting without stressing too much about numbers and/or deadlines

Many of the MMO gurus love using that "passive income" term, but as a recent thread here was discussing, passive ain't what it's made out to be.

[DaveMurphy]

Hey Dave! Great intro post and welcome to Experienced People.
In what area do you have experience in game programming? Have you thought about trying something in the mobile space? Perhaps a free game that is ad supported or offers in app purchases.

I've thought about it a few times, even had a play around with Android & iPhone toolkits. My main experience is with game consoles where there are quite standard control systems and that doesn't translate particularly well to the touchscreen format. For me personally the tactile feedback you get from buttons and analog sticks is part and parcel of the game experience.

In app purchases would just make me feel dirty - I don't think I've seen that done well anywhere yet. Certainly it appears that the "gouge the crap out of your users" approach Zynga uses is the most successful while people who try to offer good value seem to spend most of their time *****ing that they can't make a living.

Hi Dave, welcome to the forums. That was a great intro

Thanks I've actually been lurking around for quite a while & been a bit nervous about dropping into the conversation what with all your rules about fluff posts etc so it's nice to know I'm not upsetting the regulars.

There are many ways to get back into Adsense. For one, you can setup a Ltd company and the company would be entitled to its own account. Another way would be to buy a site that comes with an Adsense account and change the payment destination to your own bank account.

That's something I didn't know which leads to another question or two. I'm going to assume all the places offering to sell adsense accounts are pretty much scams or at best sell you an account that's going to get disabled eventually. What about all these places where you can set up a ltd company online with cashback when you open a bank account they recommend - anything to watch out for with these?

I was recently offered a site related to my main site that already has an adsense account by a friend who can't find the time and/or motivation to work on it ( we've done a fair bit of cross promotion over the years we've been running them) If it's a personal account I assume google's T&Cs would disallow transfer? Would it be better to take over said site as a company & then apply for an adsense account that way?

Many of the MMO gurus love using that "passive income" term, but as a recent thread here was discussing, passive ain't what it's made out to be.

Sure, that's why I qualified it with "relatively", I don't expect to have to do no work but I'd like to have some things as automated as possible. I've thought about a subscription service where users of my software could get a regular mailing of updates on a CD/DVD via one of the fulfilment providers - a tad more expensive than doing a duplication run but less time consuming than doing the envelope addressing and stuffing myself. Added benefit of not needing stock on hand to fill orders. I've seen a few services recently that will do something similar with custom USB sticks which might actually be more appealing. The main stumbling block with that right now is getting the software to the point where I'm happy charging money for those particular configurations ( although some of that is mainly being cursed with perfectionism & I should learn when to stop tweaking)

I found this really interesting - http://www.bestpricecomputers.ltd.uk.../operation.htm - love the positioning as a bit exclusive and sending people elsewhere if they're too cheap to buy high end computers The part where it says "Competitors pay us a few pence per customer we send them, but because we send them hundreds of thousands of customers the money we earn on this more than pays the mortgage" though, was that done through adsense, affiliate links or selling advertising directly?

[JimWaller]

Dave,

I'm not sure what types off games you like to program, but a site that may be useful for you is giveawayoftheday.com or their sub-site game.giveawayoftheday.com they work with software companies to provide paid versions of software for free for one day only. Many companies use the model of giving away a lesser version (perhaps with fewer levels) and offering a fuller version at a discount on the day of the giveaway. It is a good way to get feedback on the game, and possibly testimonials. Additionally, you might get purchases after the day of the giveaway from those who missed it, or those whose computer crashed and they liked your software enough to buy it.

As for a mobile app, you could follow the angry birds model and offer a lesser, ad supported version for free and have the option of a paid version without ads with more levels. That way, you could avoid feeling dirty for in app purchases. The free version offers a taste of the game play, and the paid version offers a better user experience. Nothin' dirty going on there. Food for thought.

I hope this has been helpful,

Jim

[Clinton]

I found this really interesting - http://www.bestpricecomputers.ltd.uk.../operation.htm - love the positioning ... was that done through adsense, affiliate links or selling advertising directly?

'Twas a long time ago, but it was just Adsense.

I'm going to assume all the places offering to sell adsense accounts are pretty much scams or at best sell you an account that's going to get disabled eventually.

Not necessarily. People sometimes sell their Adsense accounts with the site when they are getting out of the market. Google doesn't approve of / allow this, but if neither party tells Google, Google doesn't know. Once you've got control of the account you change the payee details.

The easier way is to start a Ltd company and then apply for a new Adsense account in the name of the Ltd.

[grynge]

Not necessarily. People sometimes sell their Adsense accounts with the site when they are getting out of the market. Google doesn't approve of / allow this, but if neither party tells Google, Google doesn't know. Once you've got control of the account you change the payee details.

The easier way is to start a Ltd company and then apply for a new Adsense account in the name of the Ltd.

I know from experience, different name on different bank account and it's all up and going. eg.. Get a new card/account with the initial D Murphy and put your name as Dean Murphy or David David Murphy. Use a new bday as well 2 good ones I use are 25-12-Year or 29-02-year always easy to remember if you need to.

[DaveMurphy]

Dave,

I'm not sure what types off games you like to program, but a site that may be useful for you is giveawayoftheday.com or their sub-site game.giveawayoftheday.com

That does look interesting, might be worth a test if & when I get around to finishing one of several game projects I have sitting around here.

What I've been doing recently though is building tools that amateur programmers can use to write their own games & applications for several game consoles and I've found I quite enjoy the process of reverse engineering, learning how these consoles work and helping others with their programming problems. It's a little difficult to monetise though, a lot of users are teens and poor students although many of them go on to find work in the games industry or more general programming careers. Quite a few of them pop back and make a donation or two to say thanks for the leg up they got from using my tools - one person ended up with a very successful 3DS application that started out as a homebrew app for the original DS.

I have a few ideas I'd like some advice on but I think it may be worth starting a new thread or two for.

As for a mobile app, you could follow the angry birds model and offer a lesser, ad supported version for free and have the option of a paid version without ads with more levels. That way, you could avoid feeling dirty for in app purchases. The free version offers a taste of the game play, and the paid version offers a better user experience. Nothin' dirty going on there. Food for thought.

Interesting you should mention Angry Birds actually, there was a recent article on Rovio's £60.8m revenue for 2011 in The Guardian which shows how lucrative the mobile gaming market can be ... assuming you have a large enough userbase. With 648m downloads that works out to around 10p per user of revenue & 6p per user of profit. 30% of their revenue came from merchandising and licensing.

On the other hand I regularly talk with indie game developers who spend a lot of time complaining about piracy, Apple moving the goalposts, lack of paying users on Android and the general lack of sufficient income to make a full time living.