Some sellers stats - see the most prolific of Flippa listers

[Andrew]

Flippa is technically capable of detecting these connections, but they don't do it.

Clinton - This is blatantly false and something you are unable to substantiate with evidence.

Your tool needs to take into account closed/suspended/banned accounts as the bulk of these were picked up and acted on by Flippa already some time ago:
- mycompanyname: on permanent probation for shill bidding 12 months ago (see below)
- flipjoy: banned over 12 months ago for shill bidding
- DevelopConcept: closed three days ago as a duplicate account
- StarBusiness: banned over a month ago for having a whois match to banned/suspended accounts
- GoodWill110: suspended earlier this week for other match to banned/suspended accounts
- hakiesr: currently under investigation

As before, I don't feel the nameserver match is reliable as a sole indicator of account links - especially for start-up sites. There is buyer demand for these sites and a number of sellers use similar approaches to meet this demand. Some good. Some bad. We focus on the latter and to this end use more than nameserver.

Cool that you're keeping us on our toes but I think this highlights that our team is already doing a lot of work in the space using a range of tools, not just whois. That ebooks such as flipstealth.com even exists should be testament to the effectiveness of the work we're already doing behind the scenes in this space.

Think we don't do enough? How about you take your non-privacy whois matches then do a check on what proportion of these are already closed, suspended or banned? While you're at it, to show we go even further, see what proportion of sellers who are currently suspended/banned that do NOT have a whois match. While you're at it, see what these represent as a total proportion of sellers on Flippa. I think you'll be surprised and see that (a) we take firm action on troublemakers and (b) they represent a small subsection of the action on Flippa.

[Clinton]

Clinton - This is blatantly false and something you are unable to substantiate with evidence.

Andrew, as evidence we can start with the very large number of connected accounts you've been allowing to operate quite happily. I'll put big money on a bet that those are connected. I was able to make those connections even though I have less than half the data that you do. You have, in addition:
- the users' IPs, login times, other activity
- deleted comments
- who bid on whose auctions
- etc etc

You should be able to make tons more connections than I can... and make them a lot quicker.

Your tool needs to take into account closed/suspended/banned accounts as the bulk of these were picked up and acted on by Flippa

You have taken action in some cases and banned accounts and in other cases meted out a "temporary suspension". Well done to the work your team has done in this space. But in many cases of clearly linked accounts you have allowed the accounts to operate for far too long after connections were obvious (even to me). If an account's connection can be seen within the first couple of listings and you allow that account to run up a hundred listings before spotting and banning it, the damage is done. Hundreds of buyers could have been cheated by shill bidding and you have done too little, too late.

Some of the accounts connected to mycompanyname that you've mentioned in your post:
DevelopConcept (had 5 listings)
GoodWill110 (had 82 listings)
hakiesr (has 95 listings and he's not even suspended!)

That's just three. I could find more if you wish

5+82+95 = 182 listings. At even $19 each it makes a very nice $3458 at the very minimum for Flippa (and excluding the higher success fees you'd have earned). You have a financial benefit in allowing these accounts to run for a while. As an organisation, you can allow these shill accounts only to the extent the market doesn't know about them as that would damage reputation. I'm not having a go at you here, but realistically speaking you don't have any incentive to protect buyers from these shill bidders - potential reputational damage is the only brake and giving the market the impression you've got dupes/shills under control covers the reputation bit.

Cool that you're keeping us on our toes

I'm sure Flippa would be a very different place today if it wasn't for this forum.

Think we don't do enough? How about you take your non-privacy whois matches then do a check on what proportion of these are already closed, suspended or banned?

See above. It's not just about banning, it's about how many listings you allow them before you ban them and how much of dodgy activity happens in that time.

The more data you keep hidden, the less incentive there is for you to clean up the marketplace. Like bidders' IDs and IPs. Start publishing those and then we'll talk about percentage of good accounts to bad accounts! Otherwise your challenge is a bit of a loaded dice and not in the great Australian tradition of fair play.

[Clinton]

One more thing, if you know about so many connected accounts, why do you hide it and only disclose "some" of the connected accounts in the user's profile? This is something else that serves to underplay the problem to the general public.

[kvmcable]

- mycompanyname: on permanent probation for shill bidding 12 months ago (see below)

Hello Andrew,

I find that comment interesting given the fact this seller consistently lists potential revenue in this title and large traffic numbers without evidence on newly established websites. What exactly does permanent probation do for buyers that aren't DD savvy and being given false information by this seller that has been reported 10 times in the last week without corrective action and as you say is on "permanent probation"?

I looked this morning and here is one of the seller's listiings:

Site Registered and Established 08-17-2012

Flippa Rule: Any claims to revenue or traffic in a listing must to supported by evidence. Any claims to potential revenue or traffic in a listing must clearly marked as such and be accompanied by robust workings and assumptions.

Seller's Listing:
Claimed Traffic
Pageviews (3 month avg) 9,500
Uniques (3 month avg) 4,500

Nothing on the listing to support the traffic claim and on a two week old website these traffic claims are preposterous.

Flippa Rule: Claims to specific potential revenue or traffic numbers are expressly forbidden in listing titles.

Seller's Listing Title:
Logo / Banner Design Business - Completely Outsourced - Easy Income - $99/sale


Flippa Rule: Any claims to potential revenue ... in a listing must clearly marked as such and be accompanied by robust workings and assumptions.


Description Potential Revenue Claims:
The site currently offers:

Personal Logo Design = Charge $99 - Cost $19 = Profit $80
Business Logo Design = Charge $199 - Cost $19 = Profit $180
Banner Design = Charge $99 - Cost $19 = Profit $80
Cartoon Design = Charge $299 - Cost $49 = Profit $250

These prices can be adjusted to anything that you see fit for your business. They currently offer an average profit of around $180/sale

I don't think this is clearly marked as potential revenue and hardly what anyone would call robust working and assumptions


While the description is a borderline infraction the title and traffic clearly are infractions. Now look at the previous buyers' feedback left for this seller:

- Waste of money

Website sold for $201

- I end up not using it... It was not auto matic and I had to do a lot of things manually. I really did not have to have the website to do that......
Website sold for $100

- I become fool by buying this site. Need to improve After Sales Service.
Website sold for $200

- this was pure scam. Stats were faked and it was not what I expected to say the least.
Website sold for $100

My question is if this seller is on probation why is he given a pass to violate site rules? I know for a fact this seller has had all his listings that are violating rules reported for at least the last two weeks without correction. It seems to me permanent probation is a gift rather than a penalty. It appears once you're on probation the site rules no longer apply and all future reports will be ignored.