Ok, this is an odd one... Please be kind.

[tke71709]

Where is this occurring? What standard have I held others to but not myself? Where am I on a high horse and where is the apples-to-apples comparison?

Take your original post in this thread, put it on Flippa as sales copy, and see how quickly you would call it a scam.

Now granted, you weren't selling anything to anyone in this post but it still doesn't come anywhere near passing the sniff test so you have to expect to get called out for it.

#1 - It is in a major spender$ niche... There is huge money in this niche.

More $ = more competition

#2 - The groundwork has been laid... This site WILL rank in the top 3 - 4 for it's #1 (NOT long term) keyword. How do I know? Well, I do -- so, please, I am not asking you to question this, I am asking for your general advice ASSUMING my description here is accurate. So, when giving your advice, assume it is. So, it will rank in the TOP 3 - 4 on Google for a very competitive, very popular, spender's keyword.

Gauranteed search engine ranking, no further SEO required for a very competitive, popular and lucrative keyword and you're not going to tell us how this is going to happen.

#4 - My other (client) sites average ~$200/day net with similar products in what are not-as-strong niches. So, I can guarantee $150 - $200/day "passive" income (SEO is bringing in traffic, ebook is written - so only mild customer support) within 6 - 8 months.

Guaranteed future revenues.

How many more red flags could there be? You're posting the same kinds of claims that you lambaste others for while stating that you plan on selling the site on a board full of people who buy sites.

I don't think you were out to scam anyone by any means but if you're going to live by the sword then you need to die by the sword.

[benitez17]

I do appreciate the suggestion.

I tried to answer this but probably was not clear. I cannot guarantee every site I make will earn me $150 per day (it is only when I find what I am looking for in a niche), my interests really are not in that rich of niches. But, even if they were, there must be the right opportunity in the niche to ensure the SEO success, because that is where the income is... Also, again, the sites may take only 50 hours to develop, but they take longer to travel. As I said in the original post -- the destination is 6 - 8 months down the road, and it is not accomplished by just letting the site sit there. The roadmap needs to be followed, which can be between 1 - 3 hours per day (depending on the site).

Once the destination is achieved then it would not be worth anyone paying $100/day for management.

Remember, what we are basically talking about is SEO. It is the keyword ranking for these sites that makes them valuable (obviously).

I understand the premise, but still don't understand why you just gave this site away and don't hold on to similar sites that you have made. Even if you only found 4 of these "golden" niches a year, you would be making $200 per day from these sites after they aged (sticking with my worst case asumption that you want to do no work and maintenance of each site costs $100 per day, even though you said that is excessive). Why would you give that up?

[christopheravell]

Take your original post in this thread, put it on Flippa as sales copy, and see how quickly you would call it a scam.

Now granted, you weren't selling anything to anyone in this post but it still doesn't come anywhere near passing the sniff test so you have to expect to get called out for it.



More $ = more competition



Gauranteed search engine ranking, no further SEO required for a very competitive, popular and lucrative keyword and you're not going to tell us how this is going to happen.



Guaranteed future revenues.

How many more red flags could there be? You're posting the same kinds of claims that you lambaste others for while stating that you plan on selling the site on a board full of people who buy sites.

I don't think you were out to scam anyone by any means but if you're going to live by the sword then you need to die by the sword.

The big difference is this is NOT on Flippa trying to sell. I was asking for advice, the ones I call out *ARE* selling something. It is this reason I was asking for advice here. I would NOT list this on Flippa this way, if I would I wouldn't need advice.

I can assure you I would react differently to someone who said "I considering autosurf traffic, what do you advise?" than to someone who said "I am selling autosurf traffic, here is the link".

The SEO will happen by following my roadmap, I didn't say no further SEO required -- or at least I didn't mean to. The roadmap is the SEO, I just don't call it SEO in general because I don't like the "SEO tricks" of the industry and this wasn't what it was about. Again, when asking you to BUY IT then I certainly would need to explain how it was going to happen, I was not though -- I was asking for your advice.

Again, on the guarantees, this was not in a SALES listing. I was telling you what I knew and asking for advice. There is a monumental difference here... You are comparing someone doing a sales pitch with someone asking for advice. They are NOT IN ANY WAY THE SAME!

I think the difference is self evident. Ironically some here did not give advice, they went on the offensive. I think when someone is trying to make a sale you ask the tough questions, when someone is asking for advice you advise them (or don't). I have done nothing on this forum to indicate I am trying to sell anyone anything. You're asking me to live by my own standard (sword) but I have been (as best I can); comparing someone asking for advice to a sales listing is not a fair-and-accurate comparison.

To illustrate this point, see this http://idontgiveascam.com/2010/04/20...y-site-a-scam/ -- notice the difference in my rhetoric.

[christopheravell]

I understand the premise, but still don't understand why you just gave this site away and don't hold on to similar sites that you have made. Even if you only found 4 of these "golden" niches a year, you would be making $200 per day from these sites after they aged (sticking with my worst case asumption that you want to do no work and maintenance of each site costs $100 per day, even though you said that is excessive). Why would you give that up?

I have made those sites for clients so I cannot just hold onto them. They are not mine. I am very glad I gave the site away, IMAGINE the reaction here if I had sold it. I shouldn't have been direct in my post, I am sorry. I should have asked a totally theoretical question. So, let me rephrase it now...

"If you had a crystal ball and could literally see into the future and the site you had developed (for someone else) and did not want to work on (for personal reasons) -- in your crystal ball you saw that 8 months from now it was top ranked in it's niche and was making ~$200/day in sales, what would you do with it. You do not want to keep the site for yourself, what do you do?"... There, ignore my first question...

I have held on to similar sites for a while and then sold them or resold them for a client. The first one I made still averages over $150 day and it has been a couple of years (almost).

But one thing that might not be clear is I do not go out and look for "golden niches". My CLIENTS tell me their interests and then I get to work... This is a niche I NEVER would have thought of on my own. It fell into my lap -- I think there was a misconception that I find the niches.

[Clinton]

I have a new site that someone had ordered but never paid for... No biggie, I will just find a new buyer -- here is the issue. What price can I sell the site for and where?

I am not going to give the URL of the site or the topic but I will say this:

#1 - It is in a major spender$ niche... There is huge money in this niche.
#2 - The groundwork has been laid... This site WILL rank in the top 3 - 4 for it's #1 (NOT long term) keyword. How do I know? Well, I do -- so, please, I am not asking you to question this, I am asking for your general advice ASSUMING my description here is accurate. So, when giving your advice, assume it is. So, it will rank in the TOP 3 - 4 on Google for a very competitive, very popular, spender's keyword.
#3 - The sales will be a custom, very high quality, ebook. No, this is not some make-money, advertising, or other "questionable" (as far as I am concerned) ebook topic.
#4 - My other (client) sites average ~$200/day net with similar products in what are not-as-strong niches. So, I can guarantee $150 - $200/day "passive" income (SEO is bringing in traffic, ebook is written - so only mild customer support) within 6 - 8 months.

So, what is this site worth -- again, assuming all I say is accurate? I know some people are going to advise I hold onto the site and then sell it but it is not a niche I have any personal interest in, it was only developed for a client - who then backed out prior to payment. So, I will either sell it, give it away, or just dump it.

So, what do you recommend I do with a site I can guarantee keyword domination on, $150+/day income, and much longevity? Where to sell it, how much to ask? Would anyone buy it based on written guarantees alone?

Should I consider a down payment and then a payment plan based on profits? Should I just throw it away? I do NOT want to just sell it for a fraction of it's value -- I would rather give it away.

Sorry, I know a weird, vague situation but I wanted you input.

What price you can sell it for is going to depend on how well you convince the buyer of what the site has to offer. As we've seen in the past, where there is no proof that the site can generate the revenue, buyers are very reluctant to offer large sums. Where you'd sell it is the easier question. You could sell it on Flippa but you'd need to be prepared for some flak like you got here. Listing on the business listing sites like businessesforsale may be better but the chances of selling something like this there are slim.

Even if I don't question your claims, it's difficult to put a value to this because value is very much in the buyers' eyes. And what they see is going to depend a lot on the URL, what you've done there and what you've said in your auction listing particularly the guarantees you are willing to give with this.

My advice on what to do with the site is hold it but as you say you're reluctant to do that, there are many members on here who'd have been willing to do that on your behalf and we could have discussed the structure of the deal. It's a shame you acted in haste and without waiting for a full spectrum of feedback here.

[christopheravell]

What price you can sell it for is going to depend on how well you convince the buyer of what the site has to offer. As we've seen in the past, where there is no proof that the site can generate the revenue, buyers are very reluctant to offer large sums. Where you'd sell it is the easier question. You could sell it on Flippa but you'd need to be prepared for some flak like you got here. Listing on the business listing sites like businessesforsale may be better but the chances of selling something like this there are slim.

Even if I don't question your claims, it's difficult to put a value to this because value is very much in the buyers' eyes. And what they see is going to depend a lot on the URL, what you've done there and what you've said in your auction listing particularly the guarantees you are willing to give with this.

My advice on what to do with the site is hold it but as you say you're reluctant to do that, there are many members on here who'd have been willing to do that on your behalf. It's a shame you acted in haste and without waiting for a full spectrum of feedback here.

Wow Clinton, how refreshing! I did get rid of it, but undoubtedly another non-paying client will come along and then you guys HAVE MY WORD I will give (GIVE, not SELL) it to someone ON THIS FORUM!

Thanks for your advice. I think I really hit a raw nerve with this one!

[benitez17]

I have made those sites for clients so I cannot just hold onto them. They are not mine. I am very glad I gave the site away, IMAGINE the reaction here if I had sold it. I shouldn't have been direct in my post, I am sorry. I should have asked a totally theoretical question. So, let me rephrase it now...

"If you had a crystal ball and could literally see into the future and the site you had developed (for someone else) and did not want to work on (for personal reasons) -- in your crystal ball you saw that 8 months from now it was top ranked in it's niche and was making ~$200/day in sales, what would you do with it. You do not want to keep the site for yourself, what do you do?"... There, ignore my first question...

I have held on to similar sites for a while and then sold them or resold them for a client. The first one I made still averages over $150 day and it has been a couple of years (almost).

But one thing that might not be clear is I do not go out and look for "golden niches". My CLIENTS tell me their interests and then I get to work... This is a niche I NEVER would have thought of on my own. It fell into my lap -- I think there was a misconception that I find the niches.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were identifying these niches, not building them after a customer gave you the details of the niche they would like to target.

I still don't get why you just gave this site away instead of selling it or hiring someone to do the support work, but that is your choice since you were stuck with a site you didn't want.

[christopheravell]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were identifying these niches, not building them after a customer gave you the details of the niche they would like to target.

I still don't get why you just gave this site away instead of selling it or hiring someone to do the support work, but that is your choice since you were stuck with a site you didn't want.

No problem, I did not make that clear. I "technically" find the niche but it is based on what they tell me their interests are -- so for example if someone said I like collecting old cars and I like travel, I might find the "classic auto show" (or "Cruise-In") niche. One I would have never thought of myself. And, many times since these are based on their interests I do not have the subject knowledge to drive the web vehicle. I can draw the map (how to get there) but I cannot drive the car.

Anyway, I am sure eventually another will come down the pipeline and when it does, I will let someone on this forum have it. They can then chronicle their experience (if they wish) and let others know what they think. However, it will need to be someone who has an interest/knowledge of the website topic so they can/will follow-through.

[JJMcClure]

Are you going to put the URL up or not?

[hooperman]

The roadmap needs to be followed, which can be between 1 - 3 hours per day (depending on the site).

You might have included that in the original post, as that affects the valuation. Any work needed to be put in prior to the site becoming a passive income stream reduces my valuation of it. Also, with every "roadmap" there comes the risk of erring from it and not reaching the destination/other people getting their own roadmap.

If I have to put all the work in, (3 hours a day x 5 days x 4 weeks x 8 months = 480 hours @ $20/hour min = $9,200) before the site reaches your targets, I'm not likely to give you the price for a "ready to go" $200/day site. The proposition that I have to invest $9,200 of my time before the site makes $200/day isn't very attractive to me. There's also the risk that you're wrong about the site's projections.

You mentioned guarantees in an earlier post. What kind of guarantees are they?

I'm not knocking the work you've done Christopher, just thinking aloud about all the things that would put me off. Even with the time commitment required and risk involved with this site, it might still be attractive to a person with those interests (I think you said that earlier).